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Old 06-29-2007, 04:15 AM #1
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Satan

Isn't it interesting that the demon from christianity is a goat looking one, that is similar to Pan (Greece) and Lucifer (God of the morning star, from Rome.) Doesn't that make anyone suspicious of the church inventing this goat looking monster from hell?

to quote wiki: "In modern and late Medieval Christian thought, Lucifer is usually a fallen angel identified as Satan."

So....therefore, was there no Satan before medieval times? In my opinion, the church wanted to scare people, to have control over them. Why else would tell people about a monster as TERRIFYING as a half human half GOAT!? Uh oh, I better watch out, it might eat my lawn!

Sure, provided theres a God there could be another powerful being that controls evil, but to me the story of Satan, sounds like a load of lies. I think that provided there was a God it would control both good and evil, if it truely is the most powerful being in our universe. Also, why does Satan keep changing shapes! Seriously, first I heard he was a goat, then during the garden of Eden story he was a serpent (snake), at some point a dragon, and some person said the behemoth was Satan in an elephant form (wtf?) lol. How come he went from a God of the morning star or the Lightbringer and then became a lord of darkness?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:19 AM #2
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:09 AM #3
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wiki/google regugetation. interesting. the "roman" lucifer is the Latin from Septuagint (Greek) from the judaeo-Christian Bible. and the representation of the devil has come in recently - this goat figure is not a biblical representation. but a human imaginative understanding of the devil. lucifer WAS his name when he was an angel. this is not something that originated in medieval times. It may have been prominent then, but by no means did it start then (at least as far as Christianity teaching in general).

the morning star fell. his pride was the issue. he exalted himself and though that he (a mere, created angel) could be equal with God.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:30 AM #4
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Meh, Satan and God are kind of pansies if you ask me.

Loki would have kicked both of their *****, and then had sex with their horses to produce children.
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:03 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
Isn't it interesting that the demon from christianity is a goat looking one, that is similar to Pan (Greece) and Lucifer (God of the morning star, from Rome.) Doesn't that make anyone suspicious of the church inventing this goat looking monster from hell?

to quote wiki: "In modern and late Medieval Christian thought, Lucifer is usually a fallen angel identified as Satan."

So....therefore, was there no Satan before medieval times? In my opinion, the church wanted to scare people, to have control over them. Why else would tell people about a monster as TERRIFYING as a half human half GOAT!? Uh oh, I better watch out, it might eat my lawn!

Sure, provided theres a God there could be another powerful being that controls evil, but to me the story of Satan, sounds like a load of lies. I think that provided there was a God it would control both good and evil, if it truely is the most powerful being in our universe. Also, why does Satan keep changing shapes! Seriously, first I heard he was a goat, then during the garden of Eden story he was a serpent (snake), at some point a dragon, and some person said the behemoth was Satan in an elephant form (wtf?) lol. How come he went from a God of the morning star or the Lightbringer and then became a lord of darkness?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan
The depiction of an entity is not the entity itself. Jesus was darker skinned than Renaissance-Period paintings portray, for example.
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:30 AM #6
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so jesus was black
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:44 AM #7
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so jesus was black
Jesus was dark skinned like the people from the Middle East. Not necessarily black like an African American, but definately not causcasian.
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:16 PM #8
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yes this is all the artists portrayal of Satan, same with Christ, he was most likely not long haired, frail, blue eyed white guy, most likely a scruffy, middle eastern guy, and was most likely pretty butch because carpentry wasn't the most sissy of jobs to have.
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:17 PM #9
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In Islam satan isn't an angel that turned bad. Angels can't say no to any of God's commands. Satan is what we call a jinn, they are creations like us and have free will to either say yes or no to what God tells them to do. You don't have to be scared of Satan either, if you are a true believer.
Also, you can't actually see satan, so he can't change shapes.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:00 PM #10
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So.....couldn't Satan look exactly like God? In theory.... if he was visible in the "afterlife"
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:28 PM #11
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The Catholic Church developed the physical appearances of certain characters to coincide with Greco-Roman paganism. The idea was by making Pan (who loved music and wine, a party guy) into the most evil of creatures the Church could also make the things he was fond of (alcohol for one) abhorrent as well. It was part of the process of religious assimilation that the Catholic Church undertook back in the early days.

My take anyway.
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:45 PM #12
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Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
So.....couldn't Satan look exactly like God? In theory.... if he was visible in the "afterlife"

When We said to the angels, 'Prostrate yourselves to Adam,' they prostrated with the exception of Iblis ( Satan). He was one of the jinn and wantonly deviated from his Lord's command. Do you take him and his offspring as protectors apart from Me when they are your enemy? How evil is the exchange the wrongdoers make! (Surat al-Kahf, 50)


Satan can shapeshift, but he cant shapeshift to God, Gods image in incomprehendable as well as uncomparable. Satan isnt the enemy of God so to speak. God could destroy Satan instantly if he wanted to. He allows Satan to try and mislead mankind in order to test us and show who the real believers are


Iblis said: “O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the [dead] are raised.” God said: “Respite is granted thee, till the Day of the time appointed.” (Al-Hijr 36-38)



he has a goal and his goal is to try and bring down every human being he can into hell in order to seek his revenge. He is given respite until the final day when all will be judged. he hates every single one of us. even people who worship him. He still hates them deeply and is just happy to know they will be in hell agonized with him. Satan told God


I will certainly lie in wait for them in Thy straight path. Then I will certainly come to them from before them and from behind them, and from their right-hand side and from their left-hand side; and Thou shalt not find most of them thankful. ( Quran 7:16-17)

O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that be might manifest their shame to them. Lo! He seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.” (Al-A`raf: 27)

Surely, Shaytan (Satan) is an enemy to you, so take (treat) him as an enemy. He only invites his followers that they may become the dwellers of the blazing Fire.” (Fatir: 6)


And final the outcome of Satan and his followers on the last day and what he will say to them

"And the Devil said when the matter has been decided: “Lo! God promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and failed you! And I had no power over you save that I called unto you and you obeyed me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves! I cannot help you, nor can you help me. Lo! I disbelieve in that which you before ascribed to me. Lo! For wrong doers is a painful doom." (Ibrahim: 22)

May God protect us all from Satan

peace,
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:13 PM #13
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i say **** religion.
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:42 PM #14
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i say **** religion.
tell us how you really feel. I can't see through the filter, but it seems that you want to have intercourse with "religion". I am not sure that's possible.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:22 PM #15
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tell us how you really feel. I can't see through the filter, but it seems that you want to have intercourse with "religion". I am not sure that's possible.
This was supposed to be funny, right? I'm hesitant because you are interpreting what he said literally, like you did with all my posts. You're also taking the thread off topic. Interesting.

Focus: Does anyone know the historical significance of a 'Satan' figure? How long have humans put an evil deity in place?
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:41 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
Isn't it interesting that the demon from christianity is a goat looking one, that is similar to Pan (Greece) and Lucifer (God of the morning star, from Rome.) Doesn't that make anyone suspicious of the church inventing this goat looking monster from hell?

to quote wiki: "In modern and late Medieval Christian thought, Lucifer is usually a fallen angel identified as Satan."

So....therefore, was there no Satan before medieval times? In my opinion, the church wanted to scare people, to have control over them. Why else would tell people about a monster as TERRIFYING as a half human half GOAT!? Uh oh, I better watch out, it might eat my lawn!

Sure, provided theres a God there could be another powerful being that controls evil, but to me the story of Satan, sounds like a load of lies. I think that provided there was a God it would control both good and evil, if it truely is the most powerful being in our universe. Also, why does Satan keep changing shapes! Seriously, first I heard he was a goat, then during the garden of Eden story he was a serpent (snake), at some point a dragon, and some person said the behemoth was Satan in an elephant form (wtf?) lol. How come he went from a God of the morning star or the Lightbringer and then became a lord of darkness?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

Satan is a deritive of the Pagan god Baal, but he had many other names. christianity has taken many of the Pagan rituals and gods and interwoven into a nice little story called the bible. Many christians will deny this and try to twist around the timeframe. But in reality, long before singular god based religions there were the Pagan God's (many). Ishtar (easter) is a direct violation of previous Pagan rituals.

The creation stories are taken from previous cultures, the flood stories, etc, etc...
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:45 PM #17
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This was supposed to be funny, right? ...
yea - sorry - my attempt at humor. I fail more than not.
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Focus: Does anyone know the historical significance of a 'Satan' figure? How long have humans put an evil deity in place?
I am not sure. not really studied it. though an "evil deity" doesn't really exist in Christianity, so not something I have spent a lot of time on.
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:59 PM #18
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
tell us how you really feel. I can't see through the filter, but it seems that you want to have intercourse with "religion". I am not sure that's possible.
catholic priests manage to bring religion into their intercourse with little children. if he really wants to **** religion as literally as you thought, then let him do so.
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:51 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
Satan is a deritive of the Pagan god Baal, but he had many other names. christianity has taken many of the Pagan rituals and gods and interwoven into a nice little story called the bible. Many christians will deny this and try to twist around the timeframe. But in reality, long before singular god based religions there were the Pagan God's (many). Ishtar (easter) is a direct violation of previous Pagan rituals.

The creation stories are taken from previous cultures, the flood stories, etc, etc...
The flood stories are so overused throughout time. I think it first came from Ancient Babylon / Epic of Gilgamesh era.
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Old 07-03-2007, 01:31 AM #20
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Originally Posted by GMoney4PREZ View Post
catholic priests manage to bring religion into their intercourse with little children. if he really wants to **** religion as literally as you thought, then let him do so.
oh look isn't that hilarious, another catholic priest / molestation joke that's so original i think i will **** my pants from laughing so hard.
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:22 AM #21
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Originally Posted by GMoney4PREZ View Post
catholic priests manage to bring religion into their intercourse with little children. if he really wants to **** religion as literally as you thought, then let him do so.
I don't think that there's any need for that, most reasonable Catholic individuals condemn the priests that have conducted such actions. However, if you'll allow me to make an off-topic point, it's a shame that the Catholic establishment don't feel the same way as those who are part of their congregations; instead of outright condemnation they instead decided to cover-up the sex abuse scandals.

Back-on topic, being a projection-athiest, I believe that Satan as a conecpt is merely a repository, someone onto which we can cast the least desirable facets of our actions, behaviour or personality. This means that individual responsibility for ones actions is absolved as they can be attributed to the influence of this evil higher power. This is the first time I've thought of this from a projection-ist point of view so I could be way off the mark in saying that: maybe the idea of this repository for our 'bad' characteristics preceeded the idea of having a benevolent higher power, as our the onus of our 'good' is taken away from the individual. If so it seems that the deity serves a different purpose, one of explanation in simplistic terms and one of appeasment about life after death, in my view. Thoughts?
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