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Old 06-15-2007, 08:09 AM #1
Fubarius
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Converting a VL/BE Semiauto into a pump

I decided a little while back to build myself a pump gun out of a blowback semi. Not improvising one out of a beat up old used gun, but from brand new parts. I've always had a thing for tinkering with BE/VL guns, so I decided I'd start from one of those since they're cheap, easy to find, and have some interesting parts compatabilities. I've mentioned this project before on a few other random threads, even posted a picture, but I figured it was a good idea to give this it's own thread.

So step one, I pick a body. I wanted one that was milled to expose the bolt. The VL Crusader, VL Charger, VL High Voltage, VL Triton II, and Stryker EMX-1000 all fit the bill, but I found the VL Charger the cheapest (on clearance sale for $59, with mask, hopper, and CO2 tank). I didn't need the mask, hopper, or tank, and I really didn't need the electronic grip frame that comes on it, but I found uses for the extra stuff (and that would be a different thread). I swapped a mechanical frame from a VL Lancer I had laying around for the e-grip and I was ready to begin.

For the pump arm I wanted something rather nice. Not some bicycle handle slipped over the barrel, but a nice under cocking setup with a metal pump guide. PMP makes a nice pump kit for the Trilogy Autococker, and wouldn't you know it the threading for the pump guide from that kit is identical to front plug threading on VL/BE guns.



Not a perfect fit, since the outer lip on the pump guide blocks the barrel a little, and the groove on the pump arm isn't deep enough to clear the barrel, but its a good start.

An hour and a half of sanding later, and the groove in the pump arm is deep enough to clear the barrel. Wrap some sandpaper around a 1" rod or pipe (I used an old barrel I had laying around) to keep the proper shape while sanding. Start with coarse, and work your way to fine.



I might have to take a bit more off, depending on which barrel I use.
And sorry about the glare, I'll fix that for the next set of pictures.

That's all for now, I'll add more as I finish it. I'd like to get it done by sunday (pump day at a local field), but no promises.

Last edited by Fubarius : 11-03-2008 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:48 AM #2
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So...how does it work? How do you stop the hammer from coming back?
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:44 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.K.S. View Post
So...how does it work? How do you stop the hammer from coming back?
That will be explained eventually. I'm posting pictures as I get it done. I didn't want to start toying with the operating system until I was sure I could get the pump arm to fit.
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Old 06-15-2007, 04:25 PM #4
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is this going to be some kind of valve that doesn't have the striker blowback hole?

are you going to use a cocking knob/back block setup to allow for independent bolt and striker motion?

so far i don't really understand how this is going to operate. i hope it's going to be closed bolt.....

looks like a good project. i was really thinking about this, but it didn't seem like there was any "easy" way to get it to work, so i gave up.
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:10 PM #5
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Next step, preventing the gun from recocking. The easiest way I found was to swap out the stock valve for one that doesn't have the vents for the recock gas.



On the right is the stock VL valve, where you can clearly see the grooves on the side of the valve pin for the recock gas. On the left is the stock valve out of a Trilogy Sport Autococker. Note no grooves on the side of the valve pin.

Here's a picture of the valve pins to more clearly show it.


The valves are a bit different in length, but once the bolt and hammer aren't linked together it won't be an issue. Fires fine right now with out recocking, though there's some hammer bounce to deal with. I'll deal with that later when I toy with spring combinations.

If you don't happen to have a Trilogy valve laying around, Palmers makes an aftermarket one that should work as well
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/p...roducts_id/407

Last edited by Fubarius : 11-03-2008 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 06-17-2007, 03:19 PM #6
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Now to separate the hammer from the bolt, while allowing the bolt to be used to push the hammer back. There's a couple ways to do this, but I figured the best way is to cut a groove in the top of the hammer.



The center of the hammer is pretty much hollow, which makes this job pretty easy. When you reach empty space you've gone deep enough. I used a dremel with some assorted cutting disks to cut the groove.

Now I just need to connect the bolt to the pump arm. I think I have some interesting ways to do that and have it look nice. I'll post more pics when I'm done with that.

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Old 06-17-2007, 07:44 PM #7
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Well, its finished and operational. Might redesign the pump arm one day, looks kind of funky since I had to put a bend in it, but it gets the job done.

I couldn't use the stock pump arm hole since it was very close to the barrel after a sanded the grove deeper, and the detent might have gotten in the way on the left side of the gun. So I mounted it on the right side.




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Old 06-18-2007, 02:23 AM #8
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Holy buckets! That is sweet!
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:10 PM #9
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Awesome mod Dave!
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:06 PM #10
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i think that that looks amazing
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:00 PM #11
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that is pretty tight. im doing a similar mod to my orion. good job man.
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Old 06-23-2007, 05:53 AM #12
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Really nice I like it a lot... I'm considering that.. whats the est. total cost? and time,excluding the gun.

EDIT: I have a stock gun just like that.. not sure of the name as it's not at my house but it's red. So I just need the pump kit and valve? plus cutting of the bolt?

Last edited by 8 ball : 06-23-2007 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 06-23-2007, 04:13 PM #13
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why would want to make it a pump - wow!
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Old 06-23-2007, 04:27 PM #14
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Very, very cool, Fubarius. You ought to post this in the pump forum's picture thread to stir things up.

You've given me an idea, too: If the PMP pump kit threads right into the front of one of these BE blowbacks, shouldn't a Palmer trilogy LPR (or a stock Trilogy LPR, for that matter) bolt right in as well?
This could make for an interesting electropneumatic conversion if there's a good way to put a ram in the back...
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/rock.htm
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Old 06-24-2007, 03:52 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inflicted View Post
Very, very cool, Fubarius. You ought to post this in the pump forum's picture thread to stir things up.

You've given me an idea, too: If the PMP pump kit threads right into the front of one of these BE blowbacks, shouldn't a Palmer trilogy LPR (or a stock Trilogy LPR, for that matter) bolt right in as well?
This could make for an interesting electropneumatic conversion if there's a good way to put a ram in the back...
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/rock.htm
Very interesting...

You could either Spimmy it or convert it to a cocker (w/a ram on the side). A halfblocked/turtled cocker conversion would be really sweet.
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:51 AM #16
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Gj, post in the custom marker section, it is sweet, id like to do that to my 98 custom some how.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:56 AM #17
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oh, I posted in the Voided Warrenty section. Didn't really alter the gun enough to warrent the Custom Gun section.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:44 PM #18
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oh, I posted in the Voided Warrenty section. Didn't really alter the gun enough to warrent the Custom Gun section.
Well, you drastically altered the marker's operating platform to be something else you wanted. I'd say that deserves to be in the Custom Markers and Pump forums.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:37 AM #19
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Well, maybe for the Charger pump mk II, when I get the pump arm cleaned up, find a set of grips I like, figure out what I want for a tank setup (feels awfully long with my HPA tank on the bottom, hard to reach the pump, guess it needs a drop), and possibly rig up an autotrigger.
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:20 PM #20
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I have a VL Triton 2 and all you need to do is f*** up the O-rings and it'll be pump action...well not pump really...more like pull...but atleast you have to cock it each time you fire haha...i did on accident...i still haven't gotten new O-rings
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:12 PM #21
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