could this be the first legend mod??? - PbNation
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:27 AM #1
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could this be the first legend mod???

well, i'm a humble guy so if this works the person who tests it can take the credit, however it may not even be possible. i was thinking to myself in bed last night and thought of something...
is there room for like one or two more o-rings to be put as an extra bumper on the ram? and would this move the bolt too far forward to feed balls? then that kills it right there, but if so and it wouldn't leak (i dont think it would) would that cause shorter cycles, and...less kick because you also have 3 o-rings instead of one? if there is room, maybe a new ram or somethin could be invented/modded to where the bolt pin is held further back on the ram and then the ram is closer to the valve...? i dont know guys i am jsut brainstoriming, forgive me if i am jsut a total idiot here.
and i knwo the legend already has efficiency and kick that are excellent, just brainstorming, trying to give this thread some life.


READ THIS PEOPLE WE THOUGHT ABOUT THE IDEA AND HAVE REAlized NOT ALL THIS IS POSSIBLE READ BELOW!!! (quoted form another post page 2)

"ok i will also edit my first post...after putting half a brain cell into it i now know you could only replace the bumper o-ring with a material that when compressed it is the same width, but it is also softer and thus reduces kick. i am in no way not satisfied with my legend's kick, jsut laways brainstorming how to mak the best even better. possibly some material like foamy like a sponge that when the ram is in the back position it is same size as the o-ring, but when the ram goes forward it has room to expand and when the ram coems back again it squishes it to the size of the original o-ring, but along the way the spongey thing absorbs more energy and reduces kick. to save time i will just copy and paste this into the first post."

Last edited by Greatest ION : 06-14-2007 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:36 AM #2
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well, if you were to add two more of the bumper o-rings onto the ram, i am almost positive the bolt would be to far forward to allow a ball to feed, because the bolt is right behind the opening for the feedneck, already allowing for the shortest cycle there.

BUT, i like your idea about the ram,makeing it longer so it is already almost touching the valve pin, so it doesnt really have to hit it, just open the valve. But would there be enough force supplied from the ram to open the valve pin with the 200 somehting psi behind it? And the ram may already be as close as possible, i dont know. But i do like your thinking.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:43 AM #3
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well the ram hitting it shorter doesnt affect it needeing to be hit harder...the bolt simply closes the breech so the air from the front can go through directly and only be able to go forwards to shoot, so i dont know if it would work or not, but i do know that in theory it should work as long as the added weight from o-rings (and possible a longer rammer that would be needed) are not going to add more kick than you take away...and if that doesn't work guys, maybe you can still mod it by like taking memory foam or somethin and purring that in the place of the o-ring bumper and making it softer so literrally no kick and you can achieve so without pushing the bolt too far forward to feed.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:51 AM #4
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now that i think about it, haveing a longer ram wouldnt work, because then it wouldnt move as far forward, and so the bolt wouldnt move as far as it needed in order to seal the breach.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:58 AM #5
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true that^^ good call...what about replacing the o-ring with a softer more absorbant material? brain storm what is softer that can be cut into a circle with a hole in the middle and it wont erode and crap up the gun?
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:02 AM #6
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so you make the o-ring a little longer, but a little softer, so it doesnt stop as hard. that could work. But what to use, maybe not even an o-ring, maybe a short, stiff spring. But, one without enough tention to spring it back against the main spring. Just a smaller dinkier version to replace the o-ring. I dont know, just thinking out loud.
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:08 PM #7
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spring could work, but with a spring that small the hard hitting force at high speeds just doesn't sit right in my mind, i would worry it is going to fall out of place or something and then bang my rammer hard. its a possibilty though...what about making a clean cut with a hole punch or somethin through bubble wrap lol ,or packaging materials that are rubbery not fibery so they wont scrape off and clog your gun?
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:23 PM #8
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first off the bolt (and therefore the ram) has to move a predetermined distance .. basicly the length of a paintball (so it opens the breech completely and seals it off in the barrel)

so really you cant shorten the cycle anymore than it already is

as for making it "softer" .. its really about how much mass is moving that gives it its "kick" ... making it softer wont change that X amount of mass moving one direction stops and moves in the opposite direction ... the bumper is there only for the reason of preventing metal from hitting metal

however, i was wondering if an extra o ring on the ram would help efficiency

other than that the only way to lower the kick would be to make the ram lighter or make the whole gun heavier
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:33 PM #9
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well actually a material like an o-ring will only absorb so much of the energy from the ram recocking and transfer the rest, while a softer material could absorb more and transfer less....however it would be near impossible to find something that will stay the same width as the o-ring and not absorb its full potential and be squashed against the wal by the bumper. the trick would be to find something that is still firm enough to not lose its form and be squashed but yet something that is softer than an o-ring. i dont know i am just brainstorming and being bored, and about the extra o-ring, you mean like a top hat mod for a dm/pm but on the ram? not exactly, remember the ram is only used for closing the breech and uses very little air. so the concept of making a smaller chamber and thus raising psi will only contract the chamber a very tiny bit, and the friction the o-ring causes might render the miniscule amount of added pressure worthless. good idea though. perhaps the infinity legend is os amazing it is perfection and no mere men can improve it for it already has goddes like form...?
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:37 PM #10
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well the energy from the ram has to go somewhere .. it dosent just dissappear ... so any kind of material is going to either absorb it (sqashing it) or reverse it (bounce back) ... i think the bumper on there is the most effective .. a little give and take

but what i ment was just one right next to the o ring on the ram (you know the only moving one) .. just to seal better and not let any air through

and t he o ring would be after the first so it dosent make the chamber any smaller

i dont really know how tight that seal is
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:39 PM #11
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also note that in the legend the ram does more than close the breech .. it also hits the valve which releases the higher volume of air needed to launch the paintball
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Old 06-09-2007, 01:02 PM #12
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yeah, so you couldnt make it longer and still allow it to fully cycle, so that doesnt work. But is there a minimum amount of weight that the ram has to be in order to hit the valve pin hard enough to open it? If it doesnt need to be with in certain limits, than i have an idea that would make t featherweight but not weak, so that it wouldnt break. But again i dont think that it would have enough momentum to open the valve.
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Old 06-09-2007, 02:11 PM #13
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well technically it dosent have to weigh anything .. you could just put more pressure behind it but its not near as efficient .. so really the lightened ram is about as good as it gets

good job glen haha
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Old 06-10-2007, 08:53 AM #14
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If you want to lighten the ram, you'd end up going to a lighter material. Lighter materials may not withstand the amount of work required by the current bolt design. Having an extra o-ring would require another groove in the ram, and a second o-ring will cause more friction resulting in more air consumption.

Right now, as I understand it the Legend may be the fastest cycling marker on the market... Why do you want it faster? It has a CP reg which is a pretty reliable reg and is pretty stable.

It's quite possible that the Legend may be at it's max potential now, and any modifications may result in a loss of performance...

Just my opinion....
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:59 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weasleyclark View Post
well, if you were to add two more of the bumper o-rings onto the ram, i am almost positive the bolt would be to far forward to allow a ball to feed, because the bolt is right behind the opening for the feedneck, already allowing for the shortest cycle there.

BUT, i like your idea about the ram,makeing it longer so it is already almost touching the valve pin, so it doesnt really have to hit it, just open the valve. But would there be enough force supplied from the ram to open the valve pin with the 200 somehting psi behind it? And the ram may already be as close as possible, i dont know. But i do like your thinking.
to make the ram closer so it doesnt hit the valve to let air through and just touches it would mean that you would need a new noid that regulates the air pressure to a smaller amount of air moving through because if you used the normal noid it would still be pushing the ram at the valve with the same force so it would be pushing VERY hard at a VERY short distance and will have potential to damage the gun.
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Old 06-10-2007, 02:41 PM #16
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Originally Posted by deadlymystery View Post
to make the ram closer so it doesnt hit the valve to let air through and just touches it would mean that you would need a new noid that regulates the air pressure to a smaller amount of air moving through because if you used the normal noid it would still be pushing the ram at the valve with the same force so it would be pushing VERY hard at a VERY short distance and will have potential to damage the gun.
agreed, but using that method at all wouldn't work.

And the idea i had for making a lighter but strong ram, would be to use a honeycomb design on it. At least on the inside. My dad is a drafter and uses solidworks, and he said you could do it but you'd have to have a mold maker, its a certain type of 3-d laser mold printer.

basically the inside of the ram is of a honeycomb type of design, and the outside is solid, so it is still strong but a bunch lighter. And the honey comb design is used on the president's plane. They use the panels and then put wood over it, so it's light but still looks nice. So if he can use it, why can't we?
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Old 06-10-2007, 03:09 PM #17
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alright people, i knew pretty much from the get go that a modded ram in length would not work basically this is my quest to find a material taht is softer than the bumper o-ring but will hold its shape and thuis reducing kick and nothing else...any ideas?
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:13 PM #18
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titanium would be a good material for a new rammer...like the ti rammer for egos...but one for the legend
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:18 PM #19
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all that would do would put it into a "ghetto training mode" were the gun wouldn't cycle fully but it would partially.

So like shooting with a squeegee in or dropping your HPR real low.
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:26 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhosinski View Post
If you want to lighten the ram, you'd end up going to a lighter material. Lighter materials may not withstand the amount of work required by the current bolt design. Having an extra o-ring would require another groove in the ram, and a second o-ring will cause more friction resulting in more air consumption.
do you KNOW it would result in more air consumption?? ..

the double tail o ring on the ion bolts helped efficiency a lot

so i was wondering if that on a ram would too .. thats all


basicly the only way to make less kick out of the ram would be to seperate the ram and bolt motion .. so two rams ... but thats changing the whole gun design haha

basicly the spring returned and even air returned designs are at their peak at the moment
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:46 PM #21
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the double tail o ring on the ion only help efficiency because it sealed the dump chamber when the blot was forward therefore stopping the gun from continually releasing air

a second o ring would probably just create more friction on the ram
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