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Old 06-14-2007, 06:09 AM #64
Jack Wood
 
 
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Very Nice!

This is a great body of work, but I have to agree that different markers have the ability to produce different shot patterns.

I think EVERYONE would be very intersted in a similar test (you have it all set up and ready to go, right ) where markers are compared side-by side in the same way. All using the same barrel, same mean velocity (measured over 25 shots, say), same paint and preferably same day.

I would be happy to loan a couple of our guns for such a test.

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Old 06-14-2007, 07:15 AM #65
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Wonderful work!

From what you have posted so far, it doesn't look like the barrel influences accuracy very much at all. (On a side note, I was actually surprised at how accurate the marker was when pinned to a table. I guess I need to practice my aiming a bit lol )

Anyway, once you get all these graphs posted, and get the Excel versions out, I might investigate the effect of the paint/bore match a bit more precisely.

Thanks for all your hard work, we definitely need more people like you around!

Last edited by Germanicus : 06-14-2007 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 06-14-2007, 10:12 AM #66
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excellent. Very scientific, thorough and VERY informative. Thank you. Let me know when you decide to test marker consistency
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:55 PM #67
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wow, i didnt think my old freak was better then my ultralight.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:47 PM #68
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While I would absolutely love to try the different markers the biggest problem with that is getting ahold of all of the gear that would be nessary. The expense would probally be what holds me back as most markers are much more than barrels, and I would want a wide range similarly to what we did with the barrels.

Lets just look at the expenses for the test we did

Chrono - $180 (I know I can keep or sell this, but none the less it had to be purchased. I already had the yellow chrono so we can leave that out of the equation.) Lets assume I can sell this for 150ish.

Paint -$500 (This does not include the 6 cases that were donated. Roughly a $220 value. 2 cases of marbs 4 cases of monsterball)

Decibel meter ~$90

DVDs to record ~ 20

Barrels that were purchased ~ $3000 ( I have sold probally half of these, but some of the barrels I had to purchase new so resale sucked.) I would estimate that after shipping I will only loose @ 600ish here (hopefully)

Borrowed barrels~50 for return shipping

Paper for the targets ~ 200 ( 6 rolls of brown paper at 11 bucks each they would do ~ 50 targets. 8 pads of white paper at 17 bucks per 50 sheets. This paper was precut, and saved lots of time)

Supplies for target/ marker stand ~ $50. ( not including all of the parts/bolts/nuts/etc that I just happen to have.)

Measurement tools to measure the internal diameter (after deciding that the calipers we were using were probally not accurate enough)~ 200ish

There were many other things that I could take into consideration such as 3 scuba tanks, facility charges, the scales that we used (Very expensive), the marker/s (we had 3 of the same markers availible in case something went wrong), etc, etc

If you add all of that up I spent ~1700.00. Subtract the ~ 300-400 dollars that was donated we spent roughly $1300. This is not including all of the time I have into this(or my wife and friends). I am hesitant to even start adding it up as I really dont want to know.

I am not complaining at all as I was the one who opened this can of worms. I do appriciate all of the positive comments, and the fact that you guys do want me to test other gear/markers. It is defiently a huge compliment.
I am just listing this so that when people say that they really wanted me to test blah blah blah they understand why I have been hesitant to say yes.

Please note:This is not meant to be against all of the PB companies who have contacted me asking me to test their products. I am going to do my best to try to do some type of followup with some of the "left out" barrels. I am also really wanting to "show-off" the accuracy of my current barrel also, but just havent had time/money to do so.

Regardless I am not going to promise anything else untill I have time to finish the report on this test. I still have quite a few theories that I believe have been proven by this test, and will hopefully shed a light on some of the attributes that I believe help with accuracy.
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Old 06-14-2007, 10:08 PM #69
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I am also really wanting to "show-off" the accuracy of my current barrel also, but just havent had time/money to do so.
?
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Old 06-15-2007, 10:03 AM #70
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Quote:
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Thanks for the links raven. That was a very intersting debate. I still dont believe that the marker can preform like they said it can, but hey you never know.
I have a remains, and while it does shoot great, it isn't any more or less accurate than any of the other 20 guns I've owned.
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Old 06-15-2007, 10:10 AM #71
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To Jack wood

Please send your new shaft barrels to Mann Please..
Mann wanted to do a mini test with the new scpeter,longbow etc...Now he can add this new shaft barrel also.Btw...Lets donate Mann for this job common!
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Old 06-15-2007, 10:19 AM #72
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i belive in teh alien theroy and if you think about it, it works thoretically. if you put a slight controlled spin on the ball, it will be under the influence of a fore and be less likely to spinn off other ways as a round object under no controll pretty much always does. i dont belive it shoots further like a flatline, but i think teh slight backspin helps the ball stay stable and HELP stop it from curving. not saying ti cant curve, just that its less likely. my freind has a ceptor, and used to shoot a pm5. i can tell you right now he is dead on every time and wasnt before. before, i was pretty confident i could beat him every time in a snap fight, now i find my self having to dodge a lot/ he gets me out more. hes definitely shooting more accurate.

now, in teh alien forum we were discussing backspin and barrels. we didnt know if it would be better to use a 1 peice barrel or a barrel kit. if teh ball has backspin, does that mean its more likely to slide across the top of teh barrel? if so i would think a 1 peice barrle would be better rather than have it slide over a seam of a 2 peice barrel.
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Old 06-15-2007, 04:22 PM #73
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Ikey: On the spinning bolt

The only thing I wonder about the backspin/spin in general. To have it work like they said you would have to overbore. In my oppinion overboring will lower the accuracy on almost all barrels (I say almost because I haven't owned all of the. There are still a few :p )I have owned flatlines, and apex barrels, and they are not the most accuracte barrel. Again I think that it part has to do with the overboring. If you match your bore to ball on a "backspin" marker/barrel it will reduce the amount of spin, and defete the whole purpose of backspin.

Now as far as one piece and two piece barrels are concerened:

We have already determined that that does not affect general accuracy. I believe on some barrels it can change the accuracy after a break (I know I have always taken the other standpoint. I sat down earlier this week, and studied how some barrels go together, and have noticed some things )

As far as a two piece with a "spinning" barrel. The fronts are always larger bores then the back (otherwise you will get breaks). On a "backspun" barrel the second piece would act like a step down, and I would think that that would not give the ideal preformance. It might even cause the ball to lift back up to the upper part of the barrel (remember that is what backspin is suposto do). If that occurs you now have a pinball.

Now this is all speculation, and it may preform the exact opposite. This is my prospective from an engineering student.
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Old 06-15-2007, 04:23 PM #74
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?
I have been playing with my ti longbow recently, and it has preformed very well.
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Old 06-15-2007, 04:26 PM #75
Mann
 
 
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To Jack wood

Please send your new shaft barrels to Mann Please..
Mann wanted to do a mini test with the new scpeter,longbow etc...Now he can add this new shaft barrel also.Btw...Lets donate Mann for this job common!

Thanks for the positive comments. I have spoke with jack, and I will contact him if/when we are ready. We have to digest everything before we pile more on the plate.
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:21 PM #76
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Ahh ok.
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:36 PM #77
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Damn, no wonder you like the Longbow: the way I figure, the x-ball gold grouping would work out to roughly 80% headshots, and in paintball at 70ft, that's ****in' impressive.
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:14 PM #78
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Damn, no wonder you like the Longbow: the way I figure, the x-ball gold grouping would work out to roughly 80% headshots, and in paintball at 70ft, that's ****in' impressive.
And thats the alum version.
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:55 PM #79
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That barrel has a good effective length.
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:48 AM #80
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Hey, my friend was wondering if you were testing the Apex at all. And if so, if you were planning to mod it to fit a kit like (Specifically) the J&J Edge kit.
All it takes is some hockeytape to fit on a kit front.

Would be a good test to do, because if one kit increased the accuracy, then they should all help.
Putting the apex on setting 8 and aiming at 80 feet would still show an accuracy change at 200 feet.
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:22 AM #81
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Hey, my friend was wondering if you were testing the Apex at all. And if so, if you were planning to mod it to fit a kit like (Specifically) the J&J Edge kit.
All it takes is some hockeytape to fit on a kit front.

Would be a good test to do, because if one kit increased the accuracy, then they should all help.
Putting the apex on setting 8 and aiming at 80 feet would still show an accuracy change at 200 feet.
I tested the accuracy of the apex as is, and it preformed horrible. Yes it curved, but I couldnt get it to curve where I wanted it to go.
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:38 AM #82
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so basically in theory with an alien you want a slight overbore 1 peice barrel. which would explain why some alien users LOVE their lucky barrels. but i know overboring has proven less accuracy with regualr guns, but you have not tested it with an alien. possibly because the balls are controlled under a slight backspin, overboring wouldsnt matter and tehy still would have less random spin and fly straighter (horizontally, i guess backspin has no effect on accuracy up and down, thats just aim and shot consistancy i guess).

however as you said, bore match an alien should shoot like anything else. so there is no possible negatives to teh alien backspin "sweep" effect.

but i guess in order to test it that would mean you doing a completely different test with an alien gun....
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:25 PM #83
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I tested the accuracy of the apex as is, and it preformed horrible. Yes it curved, but I couldnt get it to curve where I wanted it to go.
With the apex the settings and curves are set to work at different distances, or at least that is what i have found works best. Oh and btw have you posted the results for the apex yet?
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:07 PM #84
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dude, you have way too much time on your hands, but what you did is very good, now people can see what barrel actually is better and not have to listen to a bunch of hype and advertising, *cough* ultralight *cough* freak
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