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Old 06-28-2012, 11:15 AM #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vihkr View Post
Funny thing is, no-one ever collated Mann's results into an easy to read chart. Consequently, there are dozens of pages in this thread, some of them with the same opinions he was trying to dispel, spanning several years. So I did just that.



I took every results image he had uploaded for each barrel vs. paintball type and measured the group sizes twice, using 2 methods (one was circle radius in Photoshop to scale), just to make sure it (I?) was sane. Then I entered them in a chart and plotted it.

How to read this chart: this chart shows group diameters in inches of 25 shots at 70 feet by paintball brand by barrel, plus the mean (average) and standard deviation to a confidence interval of 90% (roughly). In layman's terms: under the conditions of his test (which I will not repeat here), each barrel he tested is expected to put 90% of its shots into a group size (diameter) indicated by the upper and lower black bars, with around 50% of the shots falling into area indicated by the blue bar in the centre. This assumes you are using the same brands of paint he used. How those brands performed, on average, is indicated by the corresponding coloured bubbles. The blue bar is the best indicator for the precision of a barrel, lower is better, and they are ranked by that average. The taller the black bar, the less consistent a particular barrel is. The shorter the bar, the more consistent a barrel is (wider spread vs. tighter spread). Statistically, if you are using any decent paint, that's not dimpled or crushed, you should get similar results. 10% of your shots should be outside the diameter described (the proverbial flyers). I did not include the results he posted for shooting through barrel breaks, near the beginning of his posts.

Conclusions: TI Longbow wins for precision, on average, followed by Evil Pipe. The most precise barrel/paint combo should be PPS Brass Dual Ported shooting XBall. Least precise is Dye Boomstick shooting Marbalizer. The most consistent barrel is the Sly Dual Carbon, which should shoot almost anything into a 14" group @ 70ft., followed by the Smart Parts Freak and Hammerhead (rifled barrel fans rejoice!). Least consistent is the Boomstick again (sorry Dye), followed by the Kaner. Guess which barrels I own?

Great work on this. If you find time, please make another one using the Mann's "shooting through paint break in barrel" data.


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Old 06-28-2012, 05:29 PM #758
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Thanks for +pos comments dudes. Ya I was considering that. I also have an overall efficiency chart I was working on which includes performance (including sound) vs. cost. I've also researched which barrels are still available, and which new ones are very close to the ones he tested. Retest, anyone?
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:33 PM #759
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it's funny, this thread just reached its' 5th birthday. You'd think that the tech would have changed enough in the course of 5 years that the data wouldn't really be that relevant anymore, but it is.

I guess there really is just only *so much* you can do with a smooth bore and round imperfect projectile.

I have a hunch that with today's smaller paint sizes the imperfections in paint have a smaller effect and overall the grouping is getting smaller though.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:36 PM #760
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:20 AM #761
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:17 PM #762
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you didnt' say, if during accuracy testing the marker was locked in position of a rest or static tool of some kind. much of what you have done depends also on the deflection of the ball casing and thickness under pressure and ballistic coefficent over the distance fired. I have found that with consistent pressure of propellent a heavier ball will carry further up to a point. But then who among us has ever thought of these principles of physics while elevating the barrel and winging about 200 balls at some guys head? It's just paintball.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:42 AM #763
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I have the Titanium Paintball Longbow Barrel System for sale in autococker threads. Three titanium barrelbacks and a black tip.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:45 PM #764
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You sir just made my day haha I do have to say I do not dissagree with any of your testing methods, awesome job man.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:39 AM #765
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Originally Posted by LeftHook View Post
it's funny, this thread just reached its' 5th birthday. You'd think that the tech would have changed enough in the course of 5 years that the data wouldn't really be that relevant anymore, but it is.

I guess there really is just only *so much* you can do with a smooth bore and round imperfect projectile.

I have a hunch that with today's smaller paint sizes the imperfections in paint have a smaller effect and overall the grouping is getting smaller though.
Smooth Bore / Round Projectile? This past Fall I was helping my son prepare for his first dear hunt with a shot gun and slug. We tried both his single shot and my longer barrel semi auto. Both had smooth bore 12ga. Accuracy decreased greatly from 25 yards to 40 and 50 yards. What we found was at 50 yards it was impossible to predict from shot to shot where it would hit. To the point that it would have been impossible to even consider a shot at 70/100 yards. We tried several brands of slugs.

He ended up hunting with his uncles Rifled Barrel Slug gun with a Heavy Barrel. Got his first Buck at 100 yards. I recently purchased a Rifled Barrel Slug Gun for him in a 20 ga. We recently started sighting it in at 40 yards. It is a huge improvement on shot consitancy.

I reserached and talk to other Slug hunters ( I had never used Slugs) and the most feeback was that Smooth Bores with Slugs are very hard to fire accurately.

I think considering all the variables involved and the Smooth Bore/Round Projectile we might be hard pressed to get a high degree of accuracy out of our Paintball Markers. Especially at long ranges these tests were done at 70' I think. Really not that far of a shot.

Seems like most of the long range accuracy is going to depend on your personal feel for your marker. I have a friend that loved to take his stock Phantom and with a single shot could hit a pop can thrown into the air. Impact was maybe 15-20' away. Another friend at his field had a golf ball on a string at the practice range set up at about 50'. He could hit it time after time (rapid firing) with his Auto Cocker (it was a $1800 custom gun). But that was at 50'.

Both of these guys are exceptional marksmen in playing conditions. These guys score lots of hits at long range in game conditions. They have great feel for there markers. I think the average person could not match them using their markers.

Marksmanship takes good equipment but more important than the Marker, I think it is the Player behind the Marker. That determines accuracy at long ranges.

I would like to see tests done at 125/150'. Then take a fixed test Marker and compare it with a live Marker with a expert shooter behind the Marker using his setup of choice at 150'. Might be interesting to see what the Marksman could do.

For most players I think you can only expect so much out of your equipment. It is your personal skill that is going to really make the difference in game conditions. Many Barrels will give you realitively speaking the same effective accuracy. Not to say that you could not get a badly made barrel from time to time. Just because it says it is a certain bore does not mean it is. Maybe we should all get Calipers for our tool kits???????? And buy at Pro Shops.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:14 AM #766
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Whats the quietest barrel
Most Accurate

Which is reomended

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Old 02-14-2013, 08:58 PM #767
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2" control bores same performance as Freaks???

Are you guys going to do any testing companies that make really short control bores like TechT, Sly and other.

I have been using Freak for years and considered giving TechT iFit a try but not about to blow $139 to find out the hard way.

Although the Freak is the standard for barrel inserts, other shorter control bore systems are getting good reviews on pbreview and youtube, but are they better than the longer Freak in performance.

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:28 AM #768
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The greatest barrel test.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:04 PM #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBall55 View Post
Are you guys going to do any testing companies that make really short control bores like TechT, Sly and other.

I have been using Freak for years and considered giving TechT iFit a try but not about to blow $139 to find out the hard way.

Although the Freak is the standard for barrel inserts, other shorter control bore systems are getting good reviews on pbreview and youtube, but are they better than the longer Freak in performance.
Well since this is hanging out there... no, they are not better than the Freak in performance, excepting the Freak backs' wandering bore size tolerances. Given the same actual bore size, the longer back will give better efficiency. The iFit is nice because you can use your stock barrel as the "front" which may preserve the design, anno, etc. versus an aftermarket freak barrel.

Of course you can always have your stock barrel bored out for Freaks.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:54 AM #770
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nice test

I really like all the information in this test, i also liked the graph that breaks it down.
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:43 PM #771
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:08 PM #772
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Sorry for updating an old thread but I wanted to bring some more information to the pot. In the case of underbore and overbore, there can exist a significant difference depending on the type of barrel you use. When the ball enters the ported section of the barrel, the exist velocity of the air is exerted upwards at a higher velocity. This will induce spin and turbulence on the barrel in the ported section of the barrel. The longer the ported section the higher the chance of an induced spin. This would explain why your tests had the Proto and TI Longbow barrels being more accurate.

In considered how the porting in done on the barrel, porting style is also important to controlling this turbulence subjected to the ball at the end of the barrel. In the case of the evil pipe barrels, the barrels are ported at an angle. This would help minimize the turbulence on the ball.

When the barrel is not ported/little to non, overboring is ideal. The exit velocity of the air will not necessarily be matched to the ball itself, and likewise, the lower velocity will reduce in less spin on the ball. If the ball rolls forward in the barrel, air drag would only compensate.

Lateral spin is not ideal on the ball due to the Magnus effect. The ball will "lift" on the axis perpendicular to the direction of the spin of the plane.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:14 PM #773
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I find it interesting how no brand of paint really did better than another. Which I find suspicious. Also the proto stock barrel and dye UL are basically the same barrels aside from the tips yet have totally different performance ratings. I also find that weird.
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:28 PM #774
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it's the tip. How that air escapes is essential. Look at the titaniums and how unique their tips are. Look how unique the evilpipes are as well. How the end is fluted is extremely important. If not, if you use a long enough control bore, you'll have even better barrels then these.

I know there is going to be a company that is going to really use these findings and create the next stage of barrels. I hope this guy pulls through. He is really going to make a significant change to how we look at paintball barrels if "he" pulls it off.
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Old 06-10-2014, 03:45 PM #775
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There's still something missing from the testing. The empire revolver kit is basically the same kit as the powerlyte kit yet performed totally different. I know I've used a lot of these different barrels over the years and never really found anything to be more or less accurate than another. That's over 24 years of paintball.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:00 PM #776
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There's still something missing from the testing. The empire revolver kit is basically the same kit as the powerlyte kit yet performed totally different. I know I've used a lot of these different barrels over the years and never really found anything to be more or less accurate than another. That's over 24 years of paintball.
Well, considering the spread and the typical engagement range, you don't really notice that much of a difference. Look at the mean averages across the barrels, most barrels are merely 2 inches off from each other at 70 feet.

From my own experience with the Shaft4 kit and the evilpipes, it is a world a difference. Even in windy conditions the evilpipe barrel is able to maintain significantly better consistency in shot spread than the Shaft4. This was tests on the Ego9 platform that had been modified to mimic the performance of an Ego11. A barrel that can control the ball is much better.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:40 PM #777
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True the differences are small and most action isn't really at long range so it's barely perceptible. You would think that one brand of paint would perform better consistently though. Regardless of barrel. I find that interesting as well.


I always liked the pipe kits.....never liked that I couldn't find one in 16 inches though.
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