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Old 05-25-2007, 11:25 PM #64
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Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
Here is a hole I've yet to hear an explanation for: how did the first organism translate the proteins necessary for protein translation? Ie: What made the lever to a machine that makes machine levers.
2-3 amino acids happend to blend in just the right way, perhaps in the presence of an electrical strike (lightning) or super heat (volcano/metor strike).
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Old 05-26-2007, 12:51 AM #65
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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
2-3 amino acids happend to blend in just the right way, perhaps in the presence of an electrical strike (lightning) or super heat (volcano/metor strike).
Then how did this supply the code for for the RNA?
And there are 22 Biological active amino acids.

The RNA codes for the proteins that are able to decode it. If you have an RNA sequence without the proteins needed for it to be decoded, then its useless. However, even if such a structure arise spontaneously, it can't put itself into the RNA code.
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Old 05-26-2007, 08:33 AM #66
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Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
Then how did this supply the code for for the RNA?
And there are 22 Biological active amino acids.

The RNA codes for the proteins that are able to decode it. If you have an RNA sequence without the proteins needed for it to be decoded, then its useless. However, even if such a structure arise spontaneously, it can't put itself into the RNA code.
Anything is posible in science MVP, every day science finds a new thing, a new way to do something. We has humans have learned to master the very building block of the universe, the atom.

With that thought, given the right set of cercimstances(sp),in the right conditions, A crude goo of proto-protine and amino acids could have touched and *snap* life.

As a example, lets look at the creation of Vulcanized Rubber. Yes simple old rubber, we all take it for granted, but did you know its creation was a total accident? That had not a exact chain of events happend, the advent of vulcanisation would have never happend. Time is filled with such events, where something happens at just the right moment, to send a chain of events in motion, just like its filled with moments that ended a chain of events, or never started a chain of events that it might have.

I realise your a christian, so the consept of a "chaos factor" isn't something you are ready to grasp due to your faith. However the fact is life is absolutely random, there is no order, no structure, no "answer to everything", no universal theory (no mater how much hawkings wants to figure one out). Things happen by chance, they might be influenced by events around them, but none the less chance.
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A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

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Old 05-26-2007, 10:31 AM #67
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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
Anything is posible in science MVP, every day science finds a new thing, a new way to do something. We has humans have learned to master the very building block of the universe, the atom.

With that thought, given the right set of cercimstances(sp),in the right conditions, A crude goo of proto-protine and amino acids could have touched and *snap* life.

As a example, lets look at the creation of Vulcanized Rubber. Yes simple old rubber, we all take it for granted, but did you know its creation was a total accident? That had not a exact chain of events happend, the advent of vulcanisation would have never happend. Time is filled with such events, where something happens at just the right moment, to send a chain of events in motion, just like its filled with moments that ended a chain of events, or never started a chain of events that it might have.

I realise your a christian, so the consept of a "chaos factor" isn't something you are ready to grasp due to your faith. However the fact is life is absolutely random, there is no order, no structure, no "answer to everything", no universal theory (no mater how much hawkings wants to figure one out). Things happen by chance, they might be influenced by events around them, but none the less chance.
I have been catching up with this conversation/discussion since I participated.

OB that actually hasn't explained how this could have happened. You haven't actually answered MVP. Your answer sounds very familiar and something you make fun of at every turn. Oh yeah! FAITH!

Tell me if this doesn't sound familiar:
With God anything is possible!
With SCIENCE anything is possible!

I am really hoping I don't HAVE to add an emoticon for this.

your answer of chance, is basically a cop out. How did such and such a thing happen? Chance. Do you have proof? Sure do, I was walking down the street and by CHANCE I looked down and found a dollar! It wasn't even intentional! That's proof! Science is all about chances!

A dodgy goes there, btw. Just replace "chance" with either "faith" or "God" and the same mockery you make towards religion is applied to you.
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Old 05-26-2007, 07:13 PM #68
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Originally Posted by NEp8ntballer View Post
t
if by valid you mean total cop out and bending of what the bible says because of the need to make the text still appear to be applicable.
I agree that it is a cop out and pretty ironic also. They believe that the bible should be taken literaly but, what they're sayin is that 1 day could be a metaphor for a long period of time. They useing a metaphor during an arguement based on wether or not the bible is metaophorical. btw im talkin about most creationist i know incase that was unclear
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Old 05-26-2007, 09:32 PM #69
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I agree that it is a cop out and pretty ironic also. They believe that the bible should be taken literaly but, what they're sayin is that 1 day could be a metaphor for a long period of time. They useing a metaphor during an arguement based on wether or not the bible is metaophorical. btw im talkin about most creationist i know incase that was unclear
some people think all of it is true, some think it is all just metaphorical, others think some parts are true and other parts are metaphors. then there's the whole allegorical thing. It all goes back to people needing to have their religion continue to be applicable. Instead of tossing it out of the window when they get proven wrong on something that part is no longer mentioned, deleted, or considered metaphorical.
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:46 PM #70
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...
The difference is, science can eventualy be proven or disproven, faith is an absolute it alows for no disproval of it.
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A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

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Old 05-27-2007, 11:25 AM #71
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This should help evryone quickly understand the most recent theory of how evolution started http://www.twow.net/ObjText/OtkCbGeRRS01A.htm
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:38 PM #72
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This should help evryone quickly understand the most recent theory of how evolution started http://www.twow.net/ObjText/OtkCbGeRRS01A.htm
That doesn't really answer my objection, but just states the proliferation of Ribozymes... Matt Ridley did a better job in Genome.



This is how cells currently work, we know this. However, if you remove, or even alter in the smallest bit, the chain breaks. This system is also VERY accurate.

Now, I understand there can be another primitive way of RNA translation (even though I don't know of one), even the simplest organisms share the same basic mechanism that other more complex organisms do.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:11 AM #73
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found an interesting vid about creationism

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...D=10835 65954
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:12 AM #74
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found an interesting vid about creationism

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...D=10835 65954
Ya, I own those on DVD.
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