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Old 05-23-2007, 12:58 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derr View Post
Actually, it doesn't. As reported in 2001 by the US Census, 79.8% of America's population was some kind of Christian. All other religions added up to a grand total of about 5% with the non-religious coming in at about 15%. 80% of the population is WELL more than enough to win any election at the federal level (read: Prez). No wonder every president ever has been a Christian.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra..._affili ation
Misleading (The Census Poll)

Cultural Christians =/= 'Religious' Christians

In a box that says Religion: [ ]Christian [ ]Non-Christian

it might as well say "Do you celebrate Christmas?"
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:08 AM #23
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I consider anyone who believes jesus was the son of god to be christian. How they celebrate said religion is their business as long as it does not infringe on anyone else.
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:10 AM #24
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The point is, few "Christians" by your definition are so influenced by their faith to let it affect their lives, and to a further extent, their political viewpoint.
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Old 05-23-2007, 02:21 AM #25
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This is super late, but ive been reading the bible recently, and apparently, if people work on the 7th day, or the sabbath, your supposed to kill them. So therefore, you people better start rounding up everyone who works on sunday, and slaughtering em, cause the bible says to

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Also, back to the posts topic, kill the gays....because it says to:

Leviticus
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
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Old 05-23-2007, 02:40 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
I consider anyone who believes jesus was the son of god to be christian. How they celebrate said religion is their business as long as it does not infringe on anyone else.
Yet in the Bible its fairly evident that a Christian, or someone who is "born-again" is someone who believes that Christ was the son of God, died on the cross for our sins, and was resurrected.

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The point is, few "Christians" by your definition are so influenced by their faith to let it affect their lives, and to a further extent, their political viewpoint.
Thank you.

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This is super late, but ive been reading the bible recently
Well since your reading... add "The New Testament" to your list.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:35 AM #27
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Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
Yet in the Bible its fairly evident that a Christian, or someone who is "born-again" is someone who believes that Christ was the son of God, died on the cross for our sins, and was.
That is the same thing as I said.
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Old 05-23-2007, 08:45 AM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
This is super late, but ive been reading the bible recently, and apparently, if people work on the 7th day, or the sabbath, your supposed to kill them. So therefore, you people better start rounding up everyone who works on sunday, and slaughtering em, cause the bible says to

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Also, back to the posts topic, kill the gays....because it says to:

Leviticus
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Ho, ho, ho! Why you've discovered the OT! Wow.

Then by your logic, we should all move to Israel and become Jews (Judaist?).
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Old 05-23-2007, 08:57 AM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
Well since your reading... add "The New Testament" to your list.
Thats it! ive had it with the hipocrates on here. You constantly will say "oh, the OT doesnt count" when it is used aganst you, but the moment somthing is convienient you will quote it as being valid.

So what is it, eather you believe the bible in its intirity, that it should be taken literal, or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose parts of it, its an absolute yes or no answer.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:00 AM #30
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Thats it! ive had it with the hipocrates on here. You constantly will say "oh, the OT doesnt count" when it is used aganst you, but the moment somthing is convienient you will quote it as being valid.

So what is it, eather you believe the bible in its intirity, that it should be taken literal, or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose parts of it, its an absolute yes or no answer.
And you decide that it HAS to be ALL literal for us now?!?!?!?! You who don't even believe the ink it was used to write it with!?!?

Well in that case, I've had it with hypocrites who ignore/mistrust/ridicule the Bible and then want to rest to follow according to THEIR line of thought on it!

Now what?
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:01 AM #31
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Originally Posted by QuantomToast View Post
Has anyone else noticed how amazingly stupid it is that homosexual marriage has been banned in certain states? The only arguments that I've EVER heard from people supporting the banning of homosexual marriage is some form of "god doesn't want a man marrying a man". Now thats fine and dandy if you think that but no one seems to realize that we have a seperation of church and state! This means that they cant use this argument because it has been completely nullified by our countries founding laws
sorry, I just really needed to rant
opinions?
I cant stand living in SC just because of how terribly homophobic people are here...

If you have a problem/do NOT like gays, then I hate you. :nododgy: nothing should change how you look at a person other then race.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:06 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
And you decide that it HAS to be ALL literal for us now?!?!?!?! You who don't even believe the ink it was used to write it with!?!?

Well in that case, I've had it with hypocrites who ignore/mistrust/ridicule the Bible and then want to rest to follow according to THEIR line of thought on it!

Now what?
The key here is belief and "faith" I do not have it in your book, so I am not subject to its rules. Your side however is, and you are a hipocrate for it, you do not get to have your cake, and eat it too MM. Its put up or shut up time here, eather:

A)You believe the bible is true, the word of god. That what it says is what we as humans must do for it is the truth path.

Or

B)You do not believe the bible, and that whiles its filled with nice, cute little stories, its just like any other book, to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:39 AM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
The key here is belief and "faith" I do not have it in your book, so I am not subject to its rules. Your side however is, and you are a hipocrate for it, you do not get to have your cake, and eat it too MM. Its put up or shut up time here, eather:

A)You believe the bible is true, the word of god. That what it says is what we as humans must do for it is the truth path.

Or

B)You do not believe the bible, and that whiles its filled with nice, cute little stories, its just like any other book, to be taken with a grain of salt.
You missed the entire point OB. For one, you can not tell a person who does believe in the Bible what is allegorical or literal. 2nd, you can not make or say to someone what their choices are since you do not participate/share in their belief (that would be like me telling a Muslim which parts of the Quran to omit and which to follow to the dot). 3rd, you call people hypocrites, but you yourself are one for not believeing but forcing others to follow your "choices" only (your post above). 4th, you are derailing this thread. It is not a discussion on Bible fallibility or literal Bible interpretation, but of the laws on gay marriages. The Bible is not in question here, but the laws.

And for your information, I don't care for cake it makes me fat.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:59 AM #34
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I almost invariably cringe when this topic comes up. This particular instance is not an exception.

The problem with the same sex marriage debate is that it's not being adequately or appropriately discussed. Everyone's busy shouting about the "sanctity of marriage" or that "love is never wrong" while entirely missing the real issue: legal protections.

Truth be told, most people (straight or gay) are woefully ignorant of the legal protections, rights, and responsibilities offered to couples (and those individuals in the couple) through civil marriage. Civil marriage covers issues ranging from tax law to inheritance law to medical care issues to insurance issues to legal rights should termination of the relationship become necessary. And these are just the things that I'm personally aware of and can name off the top of my head.

The question becomes one of justifying denying same sex couples these same protections. In fact, a great many of people who oppose "gay marriage," upon examination of these issues, will admit that they believe that same sex couples should have the same legal protections. Which is why many of them will support domestic partnerships or civil unions. (Unfortunately, such a solution is unworkable, as evidenced by the problems still cropping up in New Jersey despite the fact that the legislature there just instituted a "civil union" law which was intended to grant same sex couples the same rights and protections as married couples. But that's for another discussion.)

If you are in support of same sex marriage (or even civil unions), I'd encourage you to educate yourself on the legal protections offered by marriage and argue your point from that perspective. Leave the arguments about separation of church and state out of it.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:01 AM #35
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Marriage is a privilege, not a right.
Civil union however is a right.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:15 AM #36
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I almost invariably cringe when this topic comes up. This particular instance is not an exception.

The problem with the same sex marriage debate is that it's not being adequately or appropriately discussed. Everyone's busy shouting about the "sanctity of marriage" or that "love is never wrong" while entirely missing the real issue: legal protections.

Truth be told, most people (straight or gay) are woefully ignorant of the legal protections, rights, and responsibilities offered to couples (and those individuals in the couple) through civil marriage. Civil marriage covers issues ranging from tax law to inheritance law to medical care issues to insurance issues to legal rights should termination of the relationship become necessary. And these are just the things that I'm personally aware of and can name off the top of my head.

The question becomes one of justifying denying same sex couples these same protections. In fact, a great many of people who oppose "gay marriage," upon examination of these issues, will admit that they believe that same sex couples should have the same legal protections. Which is why many of them will support domestic partnerships or civil unions. (Unfortunately, such a solution is unworkable, as evidenced by the problems still cropping up in New Jersey despite the fact that the legislature there just instituted a "civil union" law which was intended to grant same sex couples the same rights and protections as married couples. But that's for another discussion.)

If you are in support of same sex marriage (or even civil unions), I'd encourage you to educate yourself on the legal protections offered by marriage and argue your point from that perspective. Leave the arguments about separation of church and state out of it.
QFT.

Look at the legal rights behind the issues, that is what is important. Yours, mine and everyone's rights. Even something as trivial as hospital visitation is a big deal. Imagine not being able to be with the person whom you have loved for a number of years, just after they had surgery or were in an accident. I do not think that anyone would oppose civil unions if they were to read about the civil liberties violations that some gay couples have had to endure.

My question though is; when did the religous right get the trademark on the word marriage? Because that word 'marriage' is the basis of the whole contention.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:25 AM #37
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QFT.

Look at the legal rights behind the issues, that is what is important. Yours, mine and everyone's rights. Even something as trivial as hospital visitation is a big deal. Imagine not being able to be with the person whom you have loved for a number of years, just after they had surgery or were in an accident. I do not think that anyone would oppose civil unions if they were to read about the civil liberties violations that some gay couples have had to endure.

My question though is; when did the religous right get the trademark on the word marriage? Because that word 'marriage' is the basis of the whole contention.
Seriously, that's what this is all about. Anyone who thinks it's ok for that situation to be going on is a sick, sadistic bastard. That's downright disgusting, not being able to visit your loved one in the hospital or put them in your health insurance or will. You think that's right? I'd like to see you handle your spouse going through cancer or something and not being able to see them at all while they are in the hospital.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:21 AM #38
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Seriously, that's what this is all about. Anyone who thinks it's ok for that situation to be going on is a sick, sadistic bastard. That's downright disgusting, not being able to visit your loved one in the hospital or put them in your health insurance or will. You think that's right? I'd like to see you handle your spouse going through cancer or something and not being able to see them at all while they are in the hospital.
Civil Unions are fine I support them, I dont think that the situation's described above are right with that said I do not support the idea of Gay marriage. If marriage is just a word then whats the big deal?
I also have another issue sorry that it's slightly OT but what about hetero couples that live together they cant put thier significant other on their insurance(concerning civil unions), visit them after certain hospital procedures etc, and I dont believe thier is a stipulation of who can and cannot be included in you will.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:28 AM #39
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...I also have another issue sorry that it's slightly OT but what about hetero couples that live together they cant put thier significant other on their insurance(concerning civil unions), visit them after certain hospital procedures etc, and I dont believe thier is a stipulation of who can and cannot be included in you will...
I know that in most states that if a man and woman live together for a certain number of years (5-7) you get a common law marriage (insta-marriage). You have all the rights and rules as if you were actually married whether you wanted to or not.

As far as the will you are correct, but the problem comes when your children claim rights as next of blood-kin over your lover, and there is a huge court battle. Even hetero couples have that problem look at what Anna Nicole-Smith (god rest her soul) went through.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:34 AM #40
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...and I dont believe thier is a stipulation of who can and cannot be included in you will.
While this is technically true, there are things to be concerned about. For example, in some states (Ohio being one such state, if memory serves), only a blood relative or legal spouse can act as executor of your willl. This can put an unmarried surviving lover at a disadvantage of the executor of the deceased is feeling particularly antagonistic. Also, it's much easier to challenge a will that names a beneficiary who is not a blood relative or legal spouse. Also, the way that inheritance tax works in some states depends on whether a given beneficiary is a legal spouse of the deceased. Then there are those states (including New York) that says that a certain percentage of the deceased's estate must go to a legal spouse if one exists, no matter what the will says.

So yes, there are still implications as to one's status as a spouse, regardless of what the will says.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:48 AM #41
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I said who you can include / exclude from your will( adopted children cannot be excluded in some states but thats ot) not the wills executioner. I could put you in my will for example.

legalzoom.com ftw(maybe I dont really know)
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:48 AM #42
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Does the new testament discuss homosexuality anywhere?
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