Genetic engineering: Blasphemy? - Page 2 - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 05-20-2007, 03:58 PM #22
bannedbi slaughter
bambi is back
 
bannedbi slaughter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: lebanon, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Shaffir View Post
how exactly is religion holding us back in this case? I am not even sure what case you are referring to...
religion slowing advancements in medical science. saying that it is unethical to do so.
__________________
Something wicked, This way comes
bannedbi slaughter is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 05-20-2007, 04:01 PM #23
Ari Shaffir (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannedbi slaughter View Post
religion slowing advancements in medical science. saying that it is unethical to do so.
Exactly, where is it in this thread where religion has said it is unethical to make medical advancements?
Ari Shaffir is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:04 PM #24
bannedbi slaughter
bambi is back
 
bannedbi slaughter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: lebanon, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMarsVolta. View Post
Speaking from a monotheist view, if God put fourth everything on this planet, which includes the tools we have innovated to incite genetic engineering, is it sacriligious to do so? Is it against Gods will to use science to better those who are disableds lives?
that is what this thread is about.
__________________
Something wicked, This way comes
bannedbi slaughter is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:08 PM #25
Ari Shaffir (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannedbi slaughter View Post
that is what this thread is about.
Yes I know, I am wondering where you see a religion has claimed that it is blasphemous or religious.
Ari Shaffir is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:12 PM #26
bannedbi slaughter
bambi is back
 
bannedbi slaughter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: lebanon, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Shaffir View Post
Yes I know, I am wondering where you see a religion has claimed that it is blasphemous or religious.
is this thread not the discussion of wether it is blasphemous?
__________________
Something wicked, This way comes
bannedbi slaughter is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:15 PM #27
Ari Shaffir (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannedbi slaughter View Post
is this thread not the discussion of wether it is blasphemous?
Yes, and you seem to be of the opinion that it is blasphemous, judging by your post about "religion" holding back man kind. I am looking for proof it is blasphemous, or I guess you just said it to put religion down and make yourself feel better?
Ari Shaffir is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:28 PM #28
bannedbi slaughter
bambi is back
 
bannedbi slaughter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: lebanon, PA
is it not true that religion, mostly christians frown upon and try to stop things like stem cell research, cloning, and abortion (not saying that abortion is neccasarily i right thing to do)?.
__________________
Something wicked, This way comes
bannedbi slaughter is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:30 PM #29
Tippmann playa
Workin' dat insulin spike
 
Tippmann playa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nebraska
Because they think they are wrong?
__________________
"If you are reading this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier."

"Originally posted by pillowpants: i dont know how to decipher this chart, then again, i do go to a community college."
"Originally posted by Mr.AmaZiN: did you just use an apostrophe for want?"
"Originally posted by pb123456789: Or call her a **** and proceed to textrape her."
"Originally posted by dualimpact: They haven't walked in on me but they know, I'm a screamer."
Tippmann playa is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:33 PM #30
Ari Shaffir (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannedbi slaughter View Post
is it not true that religion, mostly christians frown upon and try to stop things like stem cell research, cloning, and abortion (not saying that abortion is neccasarily i right thing to do)?.
Individuals are not religion. Most of the issues that are considered breaking a religious law has to do with murdering another human, not modifying genes...
Ari Shaffir is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 04:34 PM #31
bannedbi slaughter
bambi is back
 
bannedbi slaughter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: lebanon, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippmann playa View Post
Because they think they are wrong?
so because religion says these things are wrong, based upon the ethics of god we should not advance human knowledge?
__________________
Something wicked, This way comes
bannedbi slaughter is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 05:02 PM #32
Tippmann playa
Workin' dat insulin spike
 
Tippmann playa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nebraska
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannedbi slaughter View Post
so because religion says these things are wrong, based upon the ethics of god we should not advance human knowledge?
I said they dont like things such as abortion because they think they are morally wrong
__________________
"If you are reading this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier."

"Originally posted by pillowpants: i dont know how to decipher this chart, then again, i do go to a community college."
"Originally posted by Mr.AmaZiN: did you just use an apostrophe for want?"
"Originally posted by pb123456789: Or call her a **** and proceed to textrape her."
"Originally posted by dualimpact: They haven't walked in on me but they know, I'm a screamer."
Tippmann playa is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 09:24 PM #33
Grayscale
Unbending Perspicacity
 
Grayscale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danegerous View Post
Why would it be a blasphemy if we were given the ability to develop tools and the ability to do the work?
So, Hitler's genocide of the Jews is a-ok, God invented fire, right?
Grayscale is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 10:06 AM #34
Hisse
 
 
Hisse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: coming to a 50 near you
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
So, Hitler's genocide of the Jews is a-ok, God invented fire, right?
I really do love people that twist facts and ignore their own religion to make a point...


Hitler's genocide was murder it would be regarded as a sin, it doesn't matter if god gave us the ability to create fire, gas, whatever it was still murder and would still be regarded as a sin as the bible says not to kill people(if I remember)

However genetic engineering is not used to cause harm, it is used for the bettering of mankind and our survival ie. at the rate the population is expanding now we would no longer have enough food in 50-100 years due to current agricultural technologies limitations, genetic engineering can fix this. So in this sense we are following the bible by helping our fellow man.

Also in this sense, if you want to call genetic modification blasphemous or bad, why not call medicine bad, why not call agriculture bad, why not call hundreds of others of man inventions bad since they all help humans aswell but they are not in the basic form that god intended
Hisse is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 10:24 AM #35
PB&S
Gerrard Wielder of Ego
 
PB&S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Not Where I want to be
I believe that God, Allah, Buddha, Yahweh and anyone else running around up there completely condone genetics.

We as humans are not creating 'new' life anymore with science and genetics than we already do when we procreate (Man and woman 'getting it on').

The stim cells or embryo's the scientist are using are god's building blocks. We are just taking his building materials and rearranging them for the benefit of mankind (his creation in his image). God (if there is one) owns the patent on cells, atoms, quarks, quasars and all the small little micro bits that make up you and I. We are not playing god, but we are playing with god's tools. Just like anyone's father I feel as long as we are using them properly and promise to put them away when we are done, there is no problem.

If god gives us our soul, then why would he differntiate between a baby in a womb and one in a test tube? Does he love one more or less? I do not think so.

Some may say because it is not natural. Well, eating meat is not natural either.
__________________
Signature
PB&S is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 10:41 AM #36
Mastermind26
We are moons
 
Mastermind26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Mastermind26 is a Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB&S View Post
I believe that God, Allah, Buddha, Yahweh and anyone else running around up there completely condone genetics.

We as humans are not creating 'new' life anymore with science and genetics than we already do when we procreate (Man and woman 'getting it on').

The stim cells or embryo's the scientist are using are god's building blocks. We are just taking his building materials and rearranging them for the benefit of mankind (his creation in his image). God (if there is one) owns the patent on cells, atoms, quarks, quasars and all the small little micro bits that make up you and I. We are not playing god, but we are playing with god's tools. Just like anyone's father I feel as long as we are using them properly and promise to put them away when we are done, there is no problem.

If god gives us our soul, then why would he differntiate between a baby in a womb and one in a test tube? Does he love one more or less? I do not think so.

Some may say because it is not natural. Well, eating meat is not natural either.
I'm curious. How do you equate condoning to ethical or un-blasphemous? Since condoning is basically forgiving or letting it go or overlooking (implying wrong doing). I don't think genetic manipulation to be blasphemous, just FYI.

We are not created in His image any longer. The Bible says Adam and Eve were, but after it says and they were made after the image of man.

The question posed for a natural born baby vs. a "test tube" baby is a very complicated one. I honestly do not know how to answer that, but I am curious.
He does not love more or less, that is for sure, since He had to give life (and soul), thus loving.


How is eating meat, not natural?
__________________
†Christ † Krew†

CK member #04 (???)
Mastermind26 is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 10:55 AM #37
PB&S
Gerrard Wielder of Ego
 
PB&S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Not Where I want to be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
I'm curious. How do you equate condoning to ethical or un-blasphemous? Since condoning is basically forgiving or letting it go or overlooking (implying wrong doing). I don't think genetic manipulation to be blasphemous, just FYI.

We are not created in His image any longer. The Bible says Adam and Eve were, but after it says and they were made after the image of man.

The question posed for a natural born baby vs. a "test tube" baby is a very complicated one. I honestly do not know how to answer that, but I am curious.
He does not love more or less, that is for sure, since He had to give life (and soul), thus loving.


How is eating meat, not natural?
Maybe condoning was not the best choice of words. I feel that god is more or less indifferent when it comes to human technological advancements. Church and Science have always been at contention with one another, when I feel they do nothing but prove one another. If you were a supreme being that could create an universe with a blink of an eye, would you really care about insignificant humans driving around in their flying cars? We as humans are unimpressive compared to god.

You quote about Adam and Eve is an interesting one. There are some faiths that believe we humans are still created in his image since we descended from A and E. If you have referance to us in the image of man I would like those. Thank you. Who really knows, since no one has seen god in quite awhile...

The eating meat debate could spark a whole nuther thread. A lot of people will contend that genetic science is not natural. I just made the comment to point out that the debate of what is natural is relative to each person and their beliefs, and that no one religion or person has the trademark to what is natural and what is not.
__________________
Signature

Last edited by PB&S : 05-21-2007 at 10:59 AM.
PB&S is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 11:07 AM #38
Mastermind26
We are moons
 
Mastermind26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Mastermind26 is a Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB&S View Post
Maybe condoning was not the best choice of words. I feel that god is more or less indifferent when it comes to human technological advancements. Church and Science have always been at contention with one another, when I feel they do nothing but prove one another. If you were a supreme being that could create an universe with a blink of an eye, would you really care about insignificant humans driving around in their flying cars? We as humans are unimpressive compared to god.

You quote about Adam and Eve is an interesting one. There are some faiths that believe we humans are still created in his image since we descended from A and E. If you have referance to us in the image of man I would like those. Thank you. Who really knows, since no one has seen god in quite awhile...

The eating meat debate could spark a whole nuther thread. A lot of people will contend that genetic science is not natural. I just made the comment to point out that the debate of what is natural is relative to each person and their beliefs, and that no one religion or person has the trademark to what is natural and what is not.
But doesn't indifference still implicate wrong doing since He doesn't actually approve? God is generally one or the other and not indifferent to things.

The quote for A&E and the descendants:
Gen. 5:1-3
1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.
2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."
3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.


I don't really care for the "eating meat is not (or is) natural", I just found it odd that you would use that for this topic.
__________________
†Christ † Krew†

CK member #04 (???)
Mastermind26 is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 11:25 AM #39
PB&S
Gerrard Wielder of Ego
 
PB&S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Not Where I want to be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
But doesn't indifference still implicate wrong doing since He doesn't actually approve? God is generally one or the other and not indifferent to things.

The quote for A&E and the descendants:
Gen. 5:1-3
1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.
2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."
3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.


I don't really care for the "eating meat is not (or is) natural", I just found it odd that you would use that for this topic.
I do not feel that indifference = wrong doing. I really just think that god does not care. I feel there are some trivial things that god really does not care about.

Some people would argue with verse you provided that if A=B and B=C then C=A. That to me does not really matter though. I am who I am, and I do not identify myself after the likeness of a god.
__________________
Signature
PB&S is offline  
Old 05-22-2007, 03:58 AM #40
Grayscale
Unbending Perspicacity
 
Grayscale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisse View Post
I really do love people that twist facts and ignore their own religion to make a point...


Hitler's genocide was murder it would be regarded as a sin, it doesn't matter if god gave us the ability to create fire, gas, whatever it was still murder and would still be regarded as a sin as the bible says not to kill people(if I remember)

However genetic engineering is not used to cause harm, it is used for the bettering of mankind and our survival ie. at the rate the population is expanding now we would no longer have enough food in 50-100 years due to current agricultural technologies limitations, genetic engineering can fix this. So in this sense we are following the bible by helping our fellow man.

Also in this sense, if you want to call genetic modification blasphemous or bad, why not call medicine bad, why not call agriculture bad, why not call hundreds of others of man inventions bad since they all help humans aswell but they are not in the basic form that god intended
That's much different than what was being stated above. There is a big difference between what you said and "God created the tools/atoms to make the tools/whatever so anything is ok".
Grayscale is offline  
Old 05-22-2007, 09:15 PM #41
Hisse
 
 
Hisse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: coming to a 50 near you
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
That's much different than what was being stated above. There is a big difference between what you said and "God created the tools/atoms to make the tools/whatever so anything is ok".
Actually your choice of words was stating sarcastically that hitlers genocide of jews was ok since god invented fire. Now this can be interpreted as you saying that just because god invented/gave us an ability doesn't mean it's alright.

I'm simply arguing that the simplest way to differentiate between what is ok to use and what isn't is based off of the simple principal of help or hurt. Genocide hurts so any use of abilities would be a sin. However modifying items in order to help humans and further improve our general quality of life and sustainability is inherantly good is it not?

I don't believe I remember anyone stating that anything is ok so long as god created it.
Hisse is offline  
Old 05-22-2007, 11:20 PM #42
Grayscale
Unbending Perspicacity
 
Grayscale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisse View Post
I don't believe I remember anyone stating that anything is ok so long as god created it.
Try the quote that my first statement was responding to, nullifying any reason for your escapade, despite that I agree.
Grayscale is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump