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Old 05-21-2007, 09:02 PM #64
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what stories? do you have any examples to cite with evidences/proofs?
First you would have to show that the biblical stories are actually true.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:05 PM #65
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:09 PM #66
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First you would have to show that the biblical stories are actually true.
not necessarily. I just want to know what stories he is in reference to. not some gray-cloud-non-specific reference to stories and tweaks.
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Old 05-22-2007, 01:18 AM #67
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Calling others ignorant while simultaneously trying to defend the openness and congeniality of Christianity? Cute. Christianity is not the most misunderstood ideology in our nation, in my opinion. Given the fact that Christianity retains the largest amount of the American population, I would venture to say that if any particular belief is misunderstood, it's Atheism or Islam. I'm not equating being a Christian as understanding Christianity necessarily, but get real; don't even act as if Christianity is some minority group that is being oppressed.
The fact that so many people subscribe (or pretend to) is why it's misunderstood. Not the basic belief itself so much as the amount of misinformation related to and caused by Christians. Faith is between you and God, not you, God, and a bunch of people, but this seems to be the misconception when people shy away due to the outrageous behavior displayed by "Christians" who are prominent in the media.

I could even consider Islam a tie, but it's semantics. The point is, just like we don't look at a 7-year-old's watercoloring to represent art culture, don't look at the morons bombing abortion clinics or saying "God hates fags" when looking for an example of the religion. Really, you don't even need to look at people at all, but if you must go to someone for advice, look to the progressive Christian churches that thrive due to their diligence in the core beliefs of Christianity and not the politics and selfish intent not uncommon in older church groups.

This makes me angry not because I care about other's opinions of my beliefs, but because of all the people scared away due to this sort of ignorance, not only by "Christians" but by secular fuel on the flame.

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Old 05-22-2007, 01:59 AM #68
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grayscale: that is very insightful. like i said. people cant just rope everyone into one category. but they do that cuz its easy. its easier to reject then to understand. no matter how small the instance, everyone is guilty of it. even myself. i try to learn from my mistakes tho. so for what its worth, you have my respect. again i only opened this thread to explore possible reasons people go to athiesm.
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Old 05-22-2007, 04:53 AM #69
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grayscale: that is very insightful. like i said. people cant just rope everyone into one category. but they do that cuz its easy. its easier to reject then to understand. no matter how small the instance, everyone is guilty of it. even myself. i try to learn from my mistakes tho. so for what its worth, you have my respect. again i only opened this thread to explore possible reasons people go to athiesm.
Right-o.

I, for my own good, don't look to others for opinions unless they have substantial, tangible examples of why their opinion is worth even jack. I have done that and people, even a majority of people, have been painfully wrong.

If it's important, get your own perspective on it. This is something I advise everyone to do.
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:27 AM #70
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I could even consider Islam a tie, but it's semantics. The point is, just like we don't look at a 7-year-old's watercoloring to represent art culture, don't look at the morons bombing abortion clinics or saying "God hates fags" when looking for an example of the religion. Really, you don't even need to look at people at all, but if you must go to someone for advice, look to the progressive Christian churches that thrive due to their diligence in the core beliefs of Christianity and not the politics and selfish intent not uncommon in older church groups.

This makes me angry not because I care about other's opinions of my beliefs, but because of all the people scared away due to this sort of ignorance, not only by "Christians" but by secular fuel on the flame.
We could look at a 7 yr old's painting as art, if that piece were used in the art community. Generally, you won't see such things where the art community gathers, displays, or shares.

As I have posted elsewhere, if the community shuns the item, or in this case behavior, then it would go away. If the christians don't shun their behavior, then it implies they are condoning it. Which then implies you agree with their actions and support them.

Look at the catholic church. If you throw out bad priests and make sure to distance yourself, then people know you do NOT condone such behavior. If you cover it up, keep those people employed, try to buy off the victims, then what does the actions imply?

I am not trying to impugn your post. I just think christians/other religions should hammer, with a big freaking hammer, any group/person who acts in disagreement. Did you or many others really make a big statement when Falwell or Robertson made a ridiculous comment about a group/person? If not, then you are condoning his behavior.

I know many people, since I live in the south, who still donate money to their causes. The only tool you have is to NOT do that to make a statement. If you don't, they still survive and people looking in can see you approve of the behavior.
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:41 AM #71
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In contrast to the original poster, I believe that even more people are turning to christianity, and that the fundamental movement is growing even larger (especially in mid-america). Partially though because of the current war and the drawing of the lines of Muslim vs Christian because of it.

In fact I have listened to numerous preachers, evangelist, pastors and reverands drum out how we need to form the christ army to combat the influence of the evils of islam in the United States. This army of course is more idealogical than literal though.

I feel that the US is not far off from any Sharia law arab state. I feel firmly though that if Pat Robertson ran the country, it would not be much different than any islamic state.

Do you agree?
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:29 AM #72
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Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
The fact that so many people subscribe (or pretend to) is why it's misunderstood. Not the basic belief itself so much as the amount of misinformation related to and caused by Christians. Faith is between you and God, not you, God, and a bunch of people, but this seems to be the misconception when people shy away due to the outrageous behavior displayed by "Christians" who are prominent in the media.

I could even consider Islam a tie, but it's semantics. The point is, just like we don't look at a 7-year-old's watercoloring to represent art culture, don't look at the morons bombing abortion clinics or saying "God hates fags" when looking for an example of the religion. Really, you don't even need to look at people at all, but if you must go to someone for advice, look to the progressive Christian churches that thrive due to their diligence in the core beliefs of Christianity and not the politics and selfish intent not uncommon in older church groups.

This makes me angry not because I care about other's opinions of my beliefs, but because of all the people scared away due to this sort of ignorance, not only by "Christians" but by secular fuel on the flame.
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Right-o.

I, for my own good, don't look to others for opinions unless they have substantial, tangible examples of why their opinion is worth even jack. I have done that and people, even a majority of people, have been painfully wrong.

If it's important, get your own perspective on it. This is something I advise everyone to do.
I'm a bit confused. You stated you care about the opinions of your beliefs, yet also state that your relationship with God is solely between you and Him? I can understand being a bit concerned with the overall view of your faith, I guess, but it would seem your relationship is yours, and no one else's. What's some Atheist's opinion of your faith matter to you?
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Old 05-22-2007, 04:12 PM #73
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We could look at a 7 yr old's painting as art, if that piece were used in the art community. Generally, you won't see such things where the art community gathers, displays, or shares.

As I have posted elsewhere, if the community shuns the item, or in this case behavior, then it would go away. If the christians don't shun their behavior, then it implies they are condoning it. Which then implies you agree with their actions and support them.

Look at the catholic church. If you throw out bad priests and make sure to distance yourself, then people know you do NOT condone such behavior. If you cover it up, keep those people employed, try to buy off the victims, then what does the actions imply?

I am not trying to impugn your post. I just think christians/other religions should hammer, with a big freaking hammer, any group/person who acts in disagreement. Did you or many others really make a big statement when Falwell or Robertson made a ridiculous comment about a group/person? If not, then you are condoning his behavior.

I know many people, since I live in the south, who still donate money to their causes. The only tool you have is to NOT do that to make a statement. If you don't, they still survive and people looking in can see you approve of the behavior.

hell ya, right on, dam skippy, darn tootin.
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Old 05-22-2007, 04:51 PM #74
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I'm a bit confused. You stated you care about the opinions of your beliefs, yet also state that your relationship with God is solely between you and Him? I can understand being a bit concerned with the overall view of your faith, I guess, but it would seem your relationship is yours, and no one else's. What's some Atheist's opinion of your faith matter to you?
Perhaps that verbiage could be interpreted more than one way - I don't care for anyone else's opinion of my beliefs.

"This makes me angry not because I care about other's opinions of my beliefs (Implied, "I don't"), but because of all the people scared away due to this sort of ignorance, not only by "Christians" but by secular fuel on the flame."
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:41 PM #75
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YOU are being hateful and bigoted by grouping all priests into child molesters and all Christians as evil. Just because some priests have bad sexual tastes, all don't. Most don't. Just because some Muslims blow themselves up, some don't. Most don't. You are calling a religion hateful? It's you that harbors the hate.

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grayscale: that is very insightful. like i said. people cant just rope everyone into one category. but they do that cuz its easy. its easier to reject then to understand. no matter how small the instance, everyone is guilty of it. even myself. i try to learn from my mistakes tho. so for what its worth, you have my respect. again i only opened this thread to explore possible reasons people go to athiesm.
You are guilty of it. And you're not trying very hard, it seems
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Old 06-07-2007, 12:29 AM #76
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4. See #1 for the corruption thing. And the FCC isn't a Christian organization, and I don't think their censorship is asking too much - have you seen South Park in the past 2 years?
Do you know that some channels in Germany show soft core porn past a certain hour, that porn mags are not hidden on the top shelf, and when the janet jackson boob fiasco occured, none of them knew why the **** we were complaining about it?

In other news, I am typing this wearing a towel.
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:51 AM #77
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I haven't read any of the thread but man I lol'd at when he said the Iraq war was a religious war. Teehee, oh that silly media.
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Old 06-07-2007, 04:06 PM #78
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In contrast to the original poster, I believe that even more people are turning to christianity, and that the fundamental movement is growing even larger (especially in mid-america). Partially though because of the current war and the drawing of the lines of Muslim vs Christian because of it.

In fact I have listened to numerous preachers, evangelist, pastors and reverands drum out how we need to form the christ army to combat the influence of the evils of islam in the United States. This army of course is more idealogical than literal though.

I feel that the US is not far off from any Sharia law arab state. I feel firmly though that if Pat Robertson ran the country, it would not be much different than any islamic state.

Do you agree?
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and the US, so Pat Robertson better get used to living with Muslims, not trying to form armies to kill them
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:34 PM #79
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The Bible was written many long years ago and revised, by man. Man is designed to be flawed. Taking the bible literally is not the best of ideas, considering how it occasionally contradicts itself. I make up my own mind, we can't all follow everything to the letter, we just aren't made to be without fault.

Religious extremeism is just someone who is too stubborn to accept and can't admit to practice what they preach. Which is sad because mny religions teach forgiveness, tolerance for fellow man and peace. The sad thing about Christianity, Muslim and the Jewish faiths is that they all worship the same God. Which means they should all at least try to get along. But they have been fighting each other longer than any other groups in our history. I think the problem here is the exsistance of religious leaders. "One man who speaks for God on Earth" Power can be misused and has been. Killing for God in any form contradicts what is taught in scriptures and basic teachings.
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:10 AM #80
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The Bible was written many long years ago and revised, by man. Man is designed to be flawed. Taking the bible literally is not the best of ideas, considering how it occasionally contradicts itself. I make up my own mind, we can't all follow everything to the letter, we just aren't made to be without fault.

Religious extremeism is just someone who is too stubborn to accept and can't admit to practice what they preach. Which is sad because mny religions teach forgiveness, tolerance for fellow man and peace. The sad thing about Christianity, Muslim and the Jewish faiths is that they all worship the same God. Which means they should all at least try to get along. But they have been fighting each other longer than any other groups in our history. I think the problem here is the exsistance of religious leaders. "One man who speaks for God on Earth" Power can be misused and has been. Killing for God in any form contradicts what is taught in scriptures and basic teachings.
That is why organized religion is dangerous whereas personal spirituality is a much better option. Organized religion can only lead to groupthink and the loss of human individuality. Personal spirituality however leads to real, pure faith.
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:35 PM #81
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The Bible was written many long years ago and revised, by man. Man is designed to be flawed. Taking the bible literally is not the best of ideas, considering how it occasionally contradicts itself. I make up my own mind, we can't all follow everything to the letter, we just aren't made to be without fault.
Actually the Bible has not been revised by man. This can be historically confirmed by 1st century documents. Also, we are still trying to find an actual contradiction in the Bible in this thread:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2166694

If you have found a contradiction we missed, please post there and it will be addressed.

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That is why organized religion is dangerous whereas personal spirituality is a much better option. Organized religion can only lead to groupthink and the loss of human individuality. Personal spirituality however leads to real, pure faith.
When you say organized religion do you mean like catholicism or smaller, more localized churches of people with "personal spirituality"? I agree w/ you if you're going where I think you're going. But I would take it one step further... state sponsored religion (Christianity, Islam, or Judaism) hardly ever ends well (I cannot think of any historical example where it has worked out well for humanity).
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:15 PM #82
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Hello. I'm going to address each of your points, in line. For backround on me- I'm a 21 year old male, married, Christian. I waited until marriage to have sex. I lead a young adults group in my church. I have witnessed miracles before, and God has blessed me with all that I have- literally. The story is long, but the gist of it is, I got hired at microsoft when I was 18 years old, met the love of my life shortly after, got married, had enough cash to fully support both of us, buy a house, buy my dream car, and all this while serving in my church. I owe it all to my King, Christ the risen one. Now, on to the responses.

[quote=empirepaintball40;35582695]
-contradictions- the bible is full of them. people take all these different stands on christianity. presbiterian, mormon, catholic, etc. EX. God is Vengeful, or god is all forgiving. God hates gay people, god is all forgiving. God says wait to have sex until marriage, while he "makes" people have the uncontrollable urge to ****.
Jesus is god. Jesus is the son of god. Jesus died for all of our sins. God sent jesus to die for all sins. theres a few.

These are not contradictions. If you read these "contradictions" in context, you will realize, that when the veil was broken in the new testament, that we were washed of our sins if we chose to be. This means, God is no longer a vengeful God, because he does not see our sins anymore. In the old testament, he was vengeful. He saw us as we truly are- completely lame corrupt sinners. If you read closely into most all contradictions, there are good, and easily understandable answers. But, there are also other contradictions that are hard to explain or understand- I believe God will show us what he meant when we get to heaven.

-random hate- gay people. this is what gets to me the most. i just dont understand what makes a person think he has the "god given" right to tell someone they are living their lives wrong, and to try to change them. being gay isnt really a choice. i am friends with a gay guy(who doesnt have AIDS), who is the friggin funniest kid in the world. he is a nice guy that would do anything for his friends, and is petrified to tell his parents, cuz they are christians. Christianity teaches love of the family, yet so many of them disown their sons because of the way they are. homophobia in his name.

I totally agree! Lots of christians struggle with homophobia. Do I? No. Did Jesus? No. a "Christian" is someone that is "like Christ." Well you know what? Are they like Christ if they sit there and judge people while being full of sin? Read the scripture that says "those of you that are sinless, cast the first stone." Jesus does NOT want us to be judgemental. He wants us to love all. Lots of christians mistake this. My mother in law, for instance. hehe. I love awesome people, and you know what? I find that most awesome people are not Christians. You don't haveto be christian to be awesome and fun loving. In fact, lots of Christians are NOT fun loving. It's sad, but man, Jesus was fun loving- he had a blast. Look at all the fun things he did, and all the faith he inspired in people. Look at the average christian today. Are they like that? no? Then they are not really following their belief in being like Christ. It's also not your place to judge them, either- but you know what? You can take heart in knowing that God also knows this, and will judge them accordingly when they die.

-devout christians usually hate people, or consider them inferior who dont share the same views as they do. not all muslims are terrorist, not all athiests are the anti christs, get over it.

I consider myself a devout Christian. I love people. I do have a big of an ego problem sometimes, but I do not consider people inferior that share different views. Actually, I really look up to a lot of people in other faiths, because they have some amazing lifestyles. Ever seen a true Buddhist? Amazing lifestyle! Great ideals, too- limit suffering of mankind. Pretty darn cool. I like studying other religions to see the world from other points of view. Do I think they are WRONG? well, I do believe that Jesus is the messiah, and he will set us free. But a lot of those other religions have some pretty right on things in them, too, even if they differ from what I think is right. Also, take a look at who you call a "devout Christian." Can you name one? Do you know someone who calls themselves a devout Christian? If so, they might be wrong. I know a guy that calls himself black, but he isn't. Fact of the matter is, most people that get labeled "devout Christians" are absolutely not- and the ones that are in the corner praying and reading the Bible and learning to be like Christ are the ones. So be careful of who you call devout Christians- because, that is just contributing to this whole idea that Christians hate people. Those aren't real Christians.

-corruption on so many levels- The catholic church sits on millions upon millions of dollars. guilt tripping people out of their money into the collection plate. PUSHING THEIR VIEWS ON OTHER PEOPLE. the FCC. taking away natural and constitutionally given rights to say whatever the **** you want to. to "protect the children" is a bunch of crap. last time i checked it was a parents responsibility to sit his kid down and say dont say that, and that just make believe, dont bring a gun to school. Laws have been passed because of the christian right. prohibition pushed forward by the moral majority. saddomy.(i dont get it, but if you are into it, who am i to try and stop you?)

Yeah, the Catholic church was/is corrupt. So are most organizations of that size. Does that affect you, and what you read in the bible, and your daily life? No, not really. Are they pushing their views on you? Nah... Actually, I agree with all the points you make, and guess what? So does Jesus. He's pretty stinkin smart, and he talks about personal accountability, talking to people open and honestly, admitting mistakes, and being cool to people. You know, Republicans have this thing against abortion. You know what Jesus would do? He would say don't do it, but he wouldn't make it a law. Because God gave us FREE WILL to do whatever we want to do- he wants us to have FREEDOM to do whatever we want. That's one of the incredibly large parts of Christianity. FREEDOM. God will not limit you, he will not stop you. But he will tell you what is probably the right choice. Jesus is not into limitations. He is into freedom. This theme is echoed throughout the WHOLE bible, and I have a hard time with the general public that spins this around. If you think Jesus is a Republican, read the BIBLE man!!! HE loves people, he gives people freedom, and that just the START of what He has for you.


CRIMINALIZED PROSTITUTION-first made illegal i believe in the 20's by the religous right. what people dont get is that prostitution isnt only for people that cant get layed. a man who was married to his wife for 27 years tragically died from breast cancer. he was devistated. and felt alone, and wasnt ready to start dating again. they slabbed his face on TV as a sex offender, and his life was never the same. when you legalize prostitution, you can regulate it. control disease. tax it. keep girls from getting raped and beaten.

Eh, I think that's wrong, but I'm not going to make laws against it. Again, same as above, Jesus wants freedom for all. Freedom from slavery of physical desire, too. Being a slave to your body is horrible! When you have control over your body, it cannot control you. But it's not up to me to decide who wants to have sex with who, and it's not really the government's, either. Either way- people that have problems with physical lust break my heart. I read all of these threads on PBNation of these 15 year old boys that can't control themselves and have sex, and it hurts to see that. People don't realize the kind of power that is in sex- the kind of emotional connection you are creating. God only meant it to be shared with one person, because it is so amazing and special. Trust me, I can relate, I waited, and I've only experienced it with my wife, on our wedding day, and past. I can tell you, I probably have more sex than all of you. And I bet it's better, too, because she KNOWS me, my body, and what I like, and she knows how to please me. Do you think your girlfriend would care as much? Do you think a prostitute really cares? God designed this to be GREAT, but outside of marriage, it's not quite as great. But that is for YOU to decide, not me, or any other person.
I just hope you can wait, so you can have as much fun as I am having.





BOTTOM LINE: DONT LET SOME DICKWEED SWAY WHAT YOU WANT TO THINK. PEOPLE NEED TO STOP USING JESUS AS AN EXCUSE TO BE A NARROW MINDED BIGGOTED *******.

If people are doing that, they are not Christians. I'm sorry, but whoever you are seeing doing this stuff is lying to you about being a Christian. I don't try to pursuade people into my beliefs, but I do pray that they see that God is trying to make their lives BETTER, Longer, and more wonderful! Talk about a DAILY miracle. You know that the bible said to get circumsized, really long time ago. Well guess what? Doctors discovered it cuts the risk of AIDS and other diseases by HALF. And don't eat pork? Guess what? Pork, back then, was FILLED with diseases. God was just watchin our backs. Pretty much everything he says in that book of his, the Bible, is because he loves us.



Have a great day, and, just know, if God does exist, he DOES love you.
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:18 PM #83
JungleLarry (Banned)
 
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Seeing that a majority of PbN regulars use a dark background, you might want to change your font color.
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