Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-16-2007, 11:06 PM #1
Mps2216
Control Yourself
 
Mps2216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
 has been a member for 10 years
A Few Comments...

Many threads in ST:R suck. Let's face it, hardly any insight is being provided into the vast abyss that is religion. Every thread turns into a matter of personal insults and arguments over trivial problems and issues. Semantics and matters of fact and opinion are killing the intellectual debate scene that was once had. So, as a fairly avid poster in ST:R, I create this thread to resolve these issues now. Too many interesting questions and intellectual propositions have been discounted or lead astray because of other insignificant dilemmas.

So, I'm going to throw out a couple of principles/ideas that I feel are true and should be respected to ensure civility and intellectual prosperity. You're welcome to refute them, address them, change them, and add any. My only goal is to resolve these issues in this thread as to prevent the demise of other threads.

1. No person, not atheist or theist, 'knows' that any particular statement or principle to be absolute fact and universally true, in concerns with religion and cosmology. That is, presenting any belief as fact is unconstituted. Evolution or Yahweh, you believe it with or without evidences. Leave it that way.

2. The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the statement. If your statement is only substantiated by faith, let that be known. One who asks you to prove your statement need not provide a refutation until evidences of the original statement have been presented.

Example:

A: "I believe God is real"
B: "Evidences that God is real, please?"
A: "The universe is irreducibly complex, etc..."

Not permitted:

A: "I believe God is real"
B: "Evidences that God is real, please?"
A: "Prove he's not real"

3. No one can disprove or prove the existence of a deity. (Pantheism aside)

4. Micro-evolution is a scientific fact.* Macro-evolution is not. It has evidences but can not be stated as such a scientific fact as micro-evolution can.

*This does not conflict with principle 1. Scientific laws and facts may be stated as facts, but remember, there are those who do not respect science. Tread lightly.

5. If one asks for evidences of their belief, that same person should be ready to provide evidences of their belief. This mainly pertains to science versus religion. If one is going to demand evidences of a particular belief, he should also be held accountable for evidences of his beliefs.

6. The exception to principle 5: If one states their beliefs are objects of pure faith, and that is clearly stated, than they are not required to any extent to provide evidences.

7. Logical fallacies concerning the existence of God do not disprove his existence. Their debates are entertaining and certainly fun to ponder, but prove little to nothing in reality.

8. Respect. Don't forget it. (Already thread on this)

9. Keep threads on topic. If you find a problem particularly pertinent, refrain from hijacking a thread. Either find a thread where it is appropriate, or create a new one.

I hope this is a step forward for ST:R. Thanks.
__________________
WashU '12
SC Rage RKPB

Last edited by Mps2216 : 05-17-2007 at 08:15 AM.
Mps2216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 05-17-2007, 01:30 AM #2
skpaintball
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: so cal <O.C.>
 has been a member for 10 years
free up
__________________
feedback
skpaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 08:23 AM #3
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
kewl, thanks.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: † Christ † Krew † #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 09:31 AM #4
warbeak2099
That is my foot!
 
warbeak2099's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Wouldn't u like to know!
 has been a member for 10 years
Great points. Let's hope some people read this.
__________________
US Navy Baller
UL'd 07 PMR F/S, PM me if interested!
#12 Italian Baller
“The real test of a man is not how well he plays the role he has invented for himself, but how well he plays the role that destiny assigned to him.”
-Václav Havel
warbeak2099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 04:09 PM #5
Charles666
cwatididthar?
 
Charles666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
You should post this link in the CK thread.
oops, this I just say that?
__________________
Forever Young

ST:You're not one of us.
Charles666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 04:56 PM #6
Adema3412
Give me fiction
 
Adema3412's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Mps I commend you, but you are fighting a losing battle.
__________________
I can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all
It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
discipline. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion
on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
Adema3412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 05:00 PM #7
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles666 View Post
You should post this link in the CK thread.
oops, this I just say that?
uhm, and in the atheist thread (an mormon thread, and Islam thread, etc...), and yep, I did say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
Mps I commend you, but you are fighting a losing battle.
unfortunately, I agree.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: † Christ † Krew † #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 05:50 PM #8
Mps2216
Control Yourself
 
Mps2216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
 has been a member for 10 years
Welp, I tried. Thanks for the supportive comments.
__________________
WashU '12
SC Rage RKPB
Mps2216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 05:55 PM #9
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mps2216 View Post
Welp, I tried. Thanks for the supportive comments.
and sigged too.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: † Christ † Krew † #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 05:59 PM #10
Mps2216
Control Yourself
 
Mps2216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
and sigged too.
Ah, nice. Perhaps there's hope indeed...
__________________
WashU '12
SC Rage RKPB
Mps2216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 06:10 PM #11
ECrevolution
LM > LT
 
ECrevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: -508-
This thread is a great idea....but I doubt people will actually listen to your advice.
__________________
***



"Originally posted by zoink: ""Originally posted by zoink: Banned because I'm a pbn mod and i don't need a reason WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

2 months until I get back in osst.....
ECrevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 06:24 PM #12
Adema3412
Give me fiction
 
Adema3412's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
I say sticky it, it's far superior to either of the mod's stickies.
__________________
I can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all
It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
discipline. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion
on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
Adema3412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2007, 10:20 PM #13
warbeak2099
That is my foot!
 
warbeak2099's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Wouldn't u like to know!
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
I say sticky it, it's far superior to either of the mod's stickies.
Agreed
__________________
US Navy Baller
UL'd 07 PMR F/S, PM me if interested!
#12 Italian Baller
“The real test of a man is not how well he plays the role he has invented for himself, but how well he plays the role that destiny assigned to him.”
-Václav Havel
warbeak2099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 12:05 AM #14
therealmr
\\\\\ i go on walks /////
 
therealmr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Behind your eyes
therealmr is a Moderator
 has been a member for 10 years
therealmr is reppin' sidebar 4 life
so I can't use the 'if god is all powerful...' fallacy anymore? dammit.
__________________
xyz

I want to be remembered for the
people I helped make memorable;
personal success is overrated if it
doesn't help everyone's progress.
therealmr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 07:51 AM #15
Mastermind26
We are moons
 
Mastermind26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Mastermind26 is a Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
I say sticky it, it's far superior to either of the mod's stickies.
Thirding this. Why isn't it sticky'd yet?
__________________
†Christ † Krew†

CK member #04 (???)
Mastermind26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 08:49 AM #16
Jlausen
synthetic like rayon
 
Jlausen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maryland
God makes the rules 'round these parts

I think this should be an addition the stickies, though..even though it will be ignored like every other sticky ever
Jlausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 10:33 AM #17
Seithman
Weaver of Wyrd
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
Thirding this. Why isn't it sticky'd yet?
As much as I agree with the list, will stickying it do any good? It seems to me that unless people voluntarily follow it (and I think that those of us who will have been doing so anyway) or are somehow forced to follow it (i.e. face disciplinary action when they fail to follow it), stickying it won't accomplish much more than posting them at all has.

Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing these ideas being enforced as rules.
__________________
Nature abhors a vacuum. That's why witches use brooms.
Seithman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 10:36 AM #18
Mastermind26
We are moons
 
Mastermind26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Mastermind26 is a Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seithman View Post
As much as I agree with the list, will stickying it do any good? It seems to me that unless people voluntarily follow it (and I think that those of us who will have been doing so anyway) or are somehow forced to follow it (i.e. face disciplinary action when they fail to follow it), stickying it won't accomplish much more than posting them at all has.

Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing these ideas being enforced as rules.
at least it'll be within easy reach and not get lost amid the countless threads started from here on in.....
__________________
†Christ † Krew†

CK member #04 (???)
Mastermind26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 11:37 AM #19
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
at least it'll be within easy reach and not get lost amid the countless threads started from here on in.....
and why I sigged it, even if it gets locked. not everyone looks at links in siggs, but will be a helpful reminder at least for me.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: † Christ † Krew † #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 12:10 PM #20
Adema3412
Give me fiction
 
Adema3412's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Hazaa!!!

Now to see if this has any effect on the quality of threads here on out.
__________________
I can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all
It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
discipline. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion
on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
Adema3412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2007, 12:56 PM #21
skpaintball
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: so cal <O.C.>
 has been a member for 10 years
ooh, me too, mee too!

OOGA BOOGA!!
__________________
feedback
skpaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump