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Old 05-25-2007, 03:07 AM #1
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Questions for christians

Does old testament law apply at all to life today? Or is it just a background for what life was like before? Are the serious logical mistakes just because back then science was non existent at the all knowing almighty did not enlighten those he had writen the bible about the truth about the natural world (example, Earth is not flat, there arent 4 legged insects, Rabbits do not chew cud.) or was its meaning passed down thru so many generations and churches that its meaning was altered?

Matthew 4:8
Again the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

Psalms 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Leviticus 11:20-22
All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.


source:
http://home.earthlink.net/~owl233/biblequotes.htm

If this is offensive go ahead and close it, but i'm trying to understand how individuals think about the roots of their religion, and if its early laws apply to today.
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:16 AM #2
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Romans 7: Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

I personally think the Old Testament isn't as valid as some people claim it is... in fact, everything in it I view as whisper-down-the-lane. Keep in mind, its thousands of years older than Christianity, and used to be passed down by word of mouth.
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Old 05-25-2007, 09:27 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
Does old testament law apply at all to life today? Or is it just a background for what life was like before? Are the serious logical mistakes just because back then science was non existent at the all knowing almighty did not enlighten those he had writen the bible about the truth about the natural world (example, Earth is not flat, there arent 4 legged insects, Rabbits do not chew cud.) or was its meaning passed down thru so many generations and churches that its meaning was altered?

If this is offensive go ahead and close it, but i'm trying to understand how individuals think about the roots of their religion, and if its early laws apply to today.
The law only applied to the Jews whom the law was for. The term gentile was to signify those not of Jewish descent and not a follower of Mosaic law.

So the laws need to be looked in context. Where these laws (which ever you are looking to find application for) for the Jews or a general law (general such as love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all strength, with all your soul and with all your mind. And specific as in do not eat meat cooked in it's own blood...<sorry can't think of the specifics at the moment)? If directed to the Jews, then they apply to the Jews only. If directed to all (as in a quality/attribute of God like in Ex. 20:3-4
3 You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God...
) then it still applies today.

Hope that helps, but it's too early to think clearly. LOL
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:13 AM #4
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hmmm, but if those laws apply only to the jews.....does that apply to jews today? I believe Moses said something along the lines of "This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed from generation to generation wherever you live."

hmm, general law, interesting...that makes some sense.
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:18 AM #5
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hmmm, but if those laws apply only to the jews.....does that apply to jews today? I believe Moses said something along the lines of "This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed from generation to generation wherever you live."
As far as I understand it still does, although I am not a Jew, so you'd better get a Jewish opinion on these laws. Also I understand that there have been some modifications (namely animal sacrifices at the temple since there is no longer a temple to worship as mandated) through the last 2K years.

It's a very interesting read, but IIRC the priests are getting retrained and getting all the artifacts required for purification and consecration of a new temple to be built in Israel. I believe the have the incense, the anointing oil and the ashes from the last red heifer.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:01 PM #6
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Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
I personally think the Old Testament isn't as valid as some people claim it is... in fact, everything in it I view as whisper-down-the-lane.
But, IIRC, you believe the world is less than a million years old, correct?
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:11 PM #7
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The jews practice the old testament laws today. I am not Jewish, but many of my relatives are. I myself am a Christian, and to answer your question on whether these apply to Christians...when Christ died on the cross, all the laws, all the rituals were set aside. Christ became the ultimate law and the tearing of the temple curtain represents that we (humans) can have direct access to God through faith in Jesus Christ.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:19 PM #8
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Originally Posted by cykomunz View Post
The jews practice the old testament laws today. I am not Jewish, but many of my relatives are. I myself am a Christian, and to answer your question on whether these apply to Christians...when Christ died on the cross, all the laws, all the rituals were set aside. Christ became the ultimate law and the tearing of the temple curtain represents that we (humans) can have direct access to God through faith in Jesus Christ.
100% in agreement except the "set aside" portion. It was not set aside as it was fulfilled or completed. Thus the name Old testament or will. When Jesus died on the cross the will was executed/completed/fully accomplished or performed. And a new testament was set in it's place (the New Testament).
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:19 PM #9
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The jews practice the old testament laws today. I am not Jewish, but many of my relatives are. I myself am a Christian, and to answer your question on whether these apply to Christians...when Christ died on the cross, all the laws, all the rituals were set aside. Christ became the ultimate law and the tearing of the temple curtain represents that we (humans) can have direct access to God through faith in Jesus Christ.
So why do you use the 10 Commandments?
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:20 PM #10
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So why do you use the 10 Commandments?
See above for general law. It is something that has to do with God's character and not so much with particular laws concerning the Jews.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:25 PM #11
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I don't entirely agree that jews follow the old testament today. The old testament says that you must observe the sabbath, and that those who don't must be put to death. It also forbids eating "cud chewing" animals, like camels, and not mentioned but implied, Cow and none of my jewish friends have ever told me they can't eat beef... It also says men who lie with men, as most would lie with women, should be put to death. So in other words, if you followed the old testament 100% you'd have a lot of peoples blood on your hands.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:26 PM #12
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...when Christ died on the cross, all the laws, all the rituals were set aside. Christ became the ultimate law and the tearing of the temple curtain represents that we (humans) can have direct access to God through faith in Jesus Christ.
Accordign to the Gospels, you're wrong.

Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law [of the Prophets].
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:31 PM #13
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I don't entirely agree that jews follow the old testament today. The old testament says that you must observe the sabbath, and that those who don't must be put to death. It also forbids eating "cud chewing" animals, like camels, and not mentioned but implied, Cow and none of my jewish friends have ever told me they can't eat beef... It also says men who lie with men, as most would lie with women, should be put to death. So in other words, if you followed the old testament 100% you'd have a lot of peoples blood on your hands.
Certain animals that chew the cud, there are also animals that chew the cud and have a split hoof (a cow being one) that are permissible to eat. Really tho. you need to ask the resident Jews.

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Accordign to the Gospels, you're wrong.

Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law [of the Prophets].
Full-filled does not equal "drop out" or erased. Because something is it not omitted or erased or forgotten.

That was the correction made immediately after his post.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:36 PM #14
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Full filled does not equal "drop out" or erased. Because something is it not omitted or erased or forgotten.
It means that the Law of the OT is completely true.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:38 PM #15
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Deuteronomy 14:6-7
You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.
that might help a little on that one, btw, whats a coney? Your right though, i should ask some jewish people to help me out with this one.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:39 PM #16
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It means that the Law of the OT is completely true.
Yes, in a nutshell, you and I are saying the same thing.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:43 PM #17
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that might help a little on that one, btw, whats a coney? Your right though, i should ask some jewish people to help me out with this one.
A coney is a small cone. LOL

The NKJV says: rock hyrax (def. = Any of several herbivorous mammals of the family Procaviidae within the order Hyraoidea of Africa and adjacent Asia, resembling woodchucks or similar rodents but more closely related to the hoofed mammals. Also called coney, dassie.)
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:44 PM #18
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Yes, in a nutshell, you and I are saying the same thing.
So you agree that the OT law is completely true?
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:13 PM #19
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So you agree that the OT law is completely true?
As in not a lie? Uh, yeah. Sure. Not sure where you leading tho.
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:30 PM #20
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As in not a lie? Uh, yeah. Sure. Not sure where you leading tho.
God also says in the OT Law to kill gays, adulterers, etc.

That's where I was leading it.
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:33 PM #21
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God also says in the OT Law to kill gays, adulterers, etc.

That's where I was leading it.
yup, it's true that God "said" that in the OT.

But the context and application in Christianity does not mean that it is to be accepted as literally applied in the new covenant. the law was fulfilled.
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