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Old 05-17-2007, 07:13 PM #1
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If jesus & god are one in the same...

The church maintains that jesus is god. jesus being the savior that died on the cross to save mankind from eternal torment. But who, may I ask, is threatening to impose this eternal torment? The answer is the very same god. So jesus, in effect, became a victim of his own judgement when dying on the cross as a substitutionary sacrifice-a blood ritual which jesus offered to himself so the he could forgive sin.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:48 PM #2
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:55 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
The church maintains that jesus is god. jesus being the savior that died on the cross to save mankind from eternal torment. But who, may I ask, is threatening to impose this eternal torment? The answer is the very same god. So jesus, in effect, became a victim of his own judgement when dying on the cross as a substitutionary sacrifice-a blood ritual which jesus offered to himself so the he could forgive sin.

Thoughts?
Yep - the blood covenant that God made for our Salvation was with Himself -

He did a covenant with Abraham the very same way.

Jesus became the victim of judgement, so that we do not have to. You've hit it! God took on our sins for us, that we would not have to.

Quote:
2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:56 PM #4
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You just did not get the idea behind the post obviously.

Also if jesus is god why did he ask why his father had forsaken him?

lol
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Old 05-17-2007, 09:34 PM #5
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Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
You just did not get the idea behind the post obviously.

Also if jesus is god why did he ask why his father had forsaken him?

lol
I did - more than you know - but in your attempt at whatever - you stumbled on a truth.

I might just use that next time I preach.

Quote:
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
When Jesus the Word was being crucified, He was doing what He did His whole time on earth - He was showing who He was using scripture.

Psalm 22:1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,

Then look a little farther down:

7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 “He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”


compare that to Matt 23:41 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said, 42 “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. 43 He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”
44 Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.


Want more?
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:05 PM #6
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You are not posting anything that really disproves the context of the thread.
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:09 PM #7
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You are not posting anything that really disproves the context of the thread.
It wouldn't because what you said is totally correct. You worded it perfectly. I know that was totally not the point but I am very impressed with how well you expressed that
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:48 PM #8
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basically he is saying god is fearing you into believing him in order to get into heaven or face "eternal torment"

what the hell kind of story is that?

people actually believe in this?
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:54 PM #9
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basically he is saying god is fearing you into believing him in order to get into heaven or face "eternal torment"

what the hell kind of story is that?

people actually believe in this?
Well, if God is the one who is "fearing" us, wouldn't that imply that God does exist and we should believe in Him? Or are you saying that something or someone else is doing the "fearing", as you put it?
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:55 PM #10
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basically he is saying god is fearing you into believing him in order to get into heaven or face "eternal torment"

what the hell kind of story is that?

people actually believe in this?
No, the OP is raising the point that Jesus brought his death upon himself since he and God are one in the same. Also, God created people, God kills himself to save them when it is he who is sending them to hell in the first place.
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:01 PM #11
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Well, if God is the one who is "fearing" us, wouldn't that imply that God does exist and we should believe in Him? Or are you saying that something or someone else is doing the "fearing", as you put it?
i really haven't been afraid to die, but the story that you're trying to tell us about basically implies that.

plus the fear wouldnt be there unless someone made you think about it.

if its not a "someone" that can do it, why not a "god"? i believe is what you're thinking.
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Old 05-18-2007, 04:11 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by careyman_462 View Post
No, the OP is raising the point that Jesus brought his death upon himself since he and God are one in the same. Also, God created people, God kills himself to save them when it is he who is sending them to hell in the first place.
Thank you for getting it. An omnipotent god would not have done this in the first place..
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:24 AM #13
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Here we go...

Cryptic has come out of his "what shall my next Christian quizzler puzzler" coma!
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Last edited by ButtsechsFTW : 05-18-2007 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:38 AM #14
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No, the OP is raising the point that Jesus brought his death upon himself since he and God are one in the same. Also, God created people, God kills himself to save them when it is he who is sending them to hell in the first place.
isnt suicide the only way to NOT get into heaven?
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:07 AM #15
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I did - more than you know - but in your attempt at whatever - you stumbled on a truth....
woohoo!
that'll preach!
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Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
Thank you for getting it. An omnipotent god would not have done this in the first place..
but as in past posts on this subject, you and others are assuming that it is God that "sends" people to hell, that is not how we think at all.
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:09 AM #16
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:12 AM #17
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
but as in past posts on this subject, you and others are assuming that it is God that "sends" people to hell, that is not how we think at all.
Where did I mention hell in this thread?
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:24 AM #18
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Where did I mention hell in this thread?
you did not directly. but you were in agreement with careyman_462's post as you quoted it and thanked him for "getting it", and HE said "God sends". so does that mean that you really don't think that careyman_462 "got it"? what did I miss?
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:15 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
you did not directly. but you were in agreement with careyman_462's post as you quoted it and thanked him for "getting it", and HE said "God sends". so does that mean that you really don't think that careyman_462 "got it"? what did I miss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by careyman_462 View Post
No, the OP is raising the point that Jesus brought his death upon himself since he and God are one in the same. Also, God created people, God kills himself to save them when it is he who is sending them to hell in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
Thank you for getting it. An omnipotent god would not have done this in the first place..
He never said "god sends". He said god kills himself to save those he has already damned to hell in the first place. You are not comprehending very well lately.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:40 AM #20
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Thank you for getting it. An omnipotent god would not have done this in the first place..
Who are you to say what a God will or will not do? They're at a plain that is far higher then any human can possibly understand..so you shouldn't even begin to question an omnipotent being's motives.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:41 AM #21
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Originally Posted by Jlausen View Post
Who are you to say what a God will or will not do? They're at a plain that is far higher then any human can possibly understand..so you shouldn't even begin to question an omnipotent being's motives.
That is complete BS. you should question everything or you will fall for anything.
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