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Old 04-10-2007, 09:31 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
haha, by definition the average person from:

(mean IQ in quotes)

Angola (69)
Mali (68)
Nigeria (67)
Senegal (64)


Is mentally retarded....

[One common criterion for diagnosis of mental retardation is a tested intelligence quotient (IQ) of 70 or below.]
Thats in America. Your talking 3rd world countries where very few people can get a good education.
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:11 PM #44
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
i can believe it. many people that are "educated", or have resources to be educated, are taught "facts" that they do not challenge
i can believe it. many people that are "uneducated"' or do not have resources to be educated, are taught "myths" that they do not challenge

fixed.
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:16 PM #45
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Originally Posted by Tippmann playa View Post
Thats in America. Your talking 3rd world countries where very few people can get a good education.
However, these comparisons are made next to the US's IQ standards. Really, it's not a logical situation, ever.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:14 AM #46
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Originally Posted by txballer077 View Post
i can believe it. many people that are "uneducated"' or do not have resources to be educated, are taught "myths" that they do not challenge

fixed.
i do agree with you, but at the same time should that be the standard to which the world holds religious people to?
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:16 AM #47
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Originally Posted by or2d2 View Post
i do agree with you, but at the same time should that be the standard to which the world holds religious people to?
unfortunately, many non-religious, or anti-religious people here, have very broad brush stroke images of the religious, including that we are uneducated and closed minded, and believe in myths, as lemmings. there are a few that understand that as individuals, we are not all that way.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:41 AM #48
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yeah, but heres another thing that you said in your post that is true

a lot of people arent athiests these days, people are ANTI religion. if thats not closed minded, idk what is..
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:43 AM #49
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Originally Posted by mamin88 View Post
I could be completely wrong here, but take a look at where religion means the most to people. Usually it is in poverty stricken countries, correct? Poverty stricken countries = bad education = lower IQ's? Just a guess
We could go another route with that

Religious countrys = bad education = lower IQ = poverty

Its a two way street, but I do believe the more religious a person is, the less open their mind is to alternitive thought, and therefor the lower their IQ is due to the lack of education beond 'the bible'
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:52 AM #50
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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
We could go another route with that

Religious countrys = bad education = lower IQ = poverty

Its a two way street, but I do believe the more religious a person is, the less open their mind is to alternitive thought, and therefor the lower their IQ is due to the lack of education beond 'the bible'
You DO realize that there are RELIGIOUS countries that reject the Bible, don't you? I gave the example of China a few posts back.

Way to NOT show your bias.....
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:54 AM #51
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Originally Posted by or2d2 View Post
yeah, but heres another thing that you said in your post that is true

a lot of people arent athiests these days, people are ANTI religion. if thats not closed minded, idk what is..
have you read very many posts on this forum? I understand that all non-believers aren't anti-religious. but many here are.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:04 AM #52
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
have you read very many posts on this forum? I understand that all non-believers aren't anti-religious. but many here are.
If you can be pro-religion, then I can be anti-religion.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:08 AM #53
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Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
You DO realize that there are RELIGIOUS countries that reject the Bible, don't you? I gave the example of China a few posts back.

Way to NOT show your bias.....
Hence why 'the bible' was in the hash marks to show you could replace any religious text into the same place and it would mean the same.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:15 AM #54
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Originally Posted by GoldEaglev2 View Post
If you can be pro-religion, then I can be anti-religion.
didn't say you couldn't be. I was replying to another poster that seemed to be saying that there are no anti-religious people here. of course, I could have misunderstood what they were trying to express.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:05 PM #55
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Originally Posted by GoldEaglev2 View Post
If you can be pro-religion, then I can be anti-religion.
an actual really good point..credit where credit is due

by being pro religion, i guess in sterotype means that religous people dont listen to anything but what they are taught or told, which is not the case.
we state what we believe, and try to convince others of our points, just as you are doing back to us with atheism. claiming that religion shouldnt be practiced or taught because its closed minded is closed minded. i know thats not what you were saying but.. its not far off

being anti religion? you have every "right" to be, but where do we get our sense of right and wrong?.. think hard, there is no basis.
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:04 PM #56
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If you can be pro-religion, then I can be anti-religion.
Love and hate are two different things my friend.
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:41 PM #57
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Love and hate are two different things my friend.
I dislike the belief itself but love many Christians Besides, how many Christians love Atheism?
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:28 PM #58
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I graduated at the top of my class in high-school and in college. My bachelor's degree is in biomedical engineering. Currently, I am in my second year of medical school and doing great. One IQ test I took many year back rated me at 144. I actually don't think you should be impressed with my (or anyone's) IQ because IQ tests are flawed in concept (or at least the manner in which they are applied) and do not predict future success one bit (or any other meaninful parameter for that matter).

If I were to take a sample of my medical school class, the ratio of believers to non-believers would be in the favor of believers. Most doctors that I know (i.e. my professors) also believe in God. The Ph.D's are another story, but even in this group you'll find those that believe in an entity that created the universe and even some that are Christian. Therefore, this notion that one must be uneducated to believe in God is bunk.

I am going to make the same point that someone made before. Association does not imply causality. That means that just because there is a high correlation between A and B, it does not follow that A caused B (or B caused A). For example, there was a study many years ago that linked coffee to lung cancer. Do you really think that drinking coffee leads to lung cancer? Of course not! But why was there such a high degree of assocation? Well, what do people while/after they drink coffee? They smoke! Therefore, there is a high association between coffee drinking and smoking because many coffee drinkers also smoke! (at least enough for there to be a statistically significant association)

I would like to give some advice to those of you who have decided on atheism because of what you saw on TV or what your teacher told you in school or because of what you saw on your visit to the museum: Don't listen to news reports summarizing what some scientist said or what some scientist claimed to have found. There is a lot more to life and existence than what you think. Find your own answers. If you think you have found the answer, you're probably wrong so keep looking. Investigate, investigate, investigate (for the rest of your life). Look at it from both sides of the fence. And keep looking. Never stop trying to find answers. And above all, try to keep your heart pure. For if you do this, you will find a lot of answers there.

I used to be an atheist, and my search for truth led me to Him. It does not mean that is where your search will take you. Maybe it will, or maybe it won't. But don't form your opinions or start your own search for truth with the bias that is so difficult for us to be free of (considering the attitudes that we are exposed to in our everyday lives). Most of us think that scientists can never be wrong, and that science can explain everything. Any scientist that tells you that cannot be credible, for science can only explain the measurable. Science can only dare to speculate on the origins of life. Even if one theory explains an occurrence, it does not follow that theory actually explains reality, for one problem may possess multiple solutions. On the matter of life, it can only definitively tell us what happened after life began.

I hope that no one goes on with the idea that you have to be dumb or uneducated to be religious. At the risk of being politically incorrect or just downright mean: A lot of dumb people are religious. Just as many idiots are atheists. And there are as many thoughtful, intelligent atheists as there are believers whether they be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc.

Have a good day!
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:50 PM #59
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Wow... a whole 39 people... certainly a large enough sample to be representative and statistically significant for the world's entire population.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:55 PM #60
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Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
I graduated at the top of my class in high-school and in college. My bachelor's degree is in biomedical engineering. Currently, I am in my second year of medical school and doing great. One IQ test I took many year back rated me at 144. I actually don't think you should be impressed with my (or anyone's) IQ because IQ tests are flawed in concept (or at least the manner in which they are applied) and do not predict future success one bit (or any other meaninful parameter for that matter).

If I were to take a sample of my medical school class, the ratio of believers to non-believers would be in the favor of believers. Most doctors that I know (i.e. my professors) also believe in God. The Ph.D's are another story, but even in this group you'll find those that believe in an entity that created the universe and even some that are Christian. Therefore, this notion that one must be uneducated to believe in God is bunk.

I am going to make the same point that someone made before. Association does not imply causality. That means that just because there is a high correlation between A and B, it does not follow that A caused B (or B caused A). For example, there was a study many years ago that linked coffee to lung cancer. Do you really think that drinking coffee leads to lung cancer? Of course not! But why was there such a high degree of assocation? Well, what do people while/after they drink coffee? They smoke! Therefore, there is a high association between coffee drinking and smoking because many coffee drinkers also smoke! (at least enough for there to be a statistically significant association)

I would like to give some advice to those of you who have decided on atheism because of what you saw on TV or what your teacher told you in school or because of what you saw on your visit to the museum: Don't listen to news reports summarizing what some scientist said or what some scientist claimed to have found. There is a lot more to life and existence than what you think. Find your own answers. If you think you have found the answer, you're probably wrong so keep looking. Investigate, investigate, investigate (for the rest of your life). Look at it from both sides of the fence. And keep looking. Never stop trying to find answers. And above all, try to keep your heart pure. For if you do this, you will find a lot of answers there.

I used to be an atheist, and my search for truth led me to Him. It does not mean that is where your search will take you. Maybe it will, or maybe it won't. But don't form your opinions or start your own search for truth with the bias that is so difficult for us to be free of (considering the attitudes that we are exposed to in our everyday lives). Most of us think that scientists can never be wrong, and that science can explain everything. Any scientist that tells you that cannot be credible, for science can only explain the measurable. Science can only dare to speculate on the origins of life. Even if one theory explains an occurrence, it does not follow that theory actually explains reality, for one problem may possess multiple solutions. On the matter of life, it can only definitively tell us what happened after life began.

I hope that no one goes on with the idea that you have to be dumb or uneducated to be religious. At the risk of being politically incorrect or just downright mean: A lot of dumb people are religious. Just as many idiots are atheists. And there are as many thoughtful, intelligent atheists as there are believers whether they be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc.

Have a good day!
I don't think it's matter of believing in a deity or not, but rather being religious versus anti-religion. Certainly the philosophies of deism and Christianity, for instance, both entail belief in a deity, but deism is certainly not under attack here. Thus many would say the uneducated are religious, rather than simply stating the uneducated retain a belief in God. Secondly, I don't really see correlation and causality as particularly pertinent to this topic. And finally, I certainly don't believe many Atheists derive their beliefs from the media, particularly because the media tends to retain contempt for Atheism. Certainly, before Dawkins anyway, Atheism was viewed more as a cult characterized by radicalness, far from anything mainstream.

Nevertheless, in concerns with science, the belief is in its potential and scope, not in scientists themselves. Despite the fact that not all Atheists are proponents of science, and I think it's a commonality that many people assume, I think everyone realizes that science can be flawed. But it's flaws are often times its beauty. They can be redeveloped and reanalyzed countless times. Look at your Bible. Has it changed? You might find that a good principle, however I find it reprehensible. It seems foolish to retain faith in a work, which during eons of Humanistic progression, has not progressed at all itself. Essentially, science has issues, and it may be inherently limited by its very nature, thus making it difficult to lay complete belief in. However, it is not difficult to believe, despite what the actual physical processes are, that existence is a strictly physical process, unperturbed by any supernatural entity.

I thought you had a good message, it was just a bit too idealistic.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:03 PM #61
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I challange all who post on this thread to read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh Mcdowell.

he set out as an atheist trying to prove that God was either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord.. and he's now a Christian apologetics writer
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:14 PM #62
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he set out as an atheist trying to prove that God was either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord.. and he's now a Christian apologetics writer
Yet how many people started out as pastors and are now Atheists. I used to be a Christian and posted in forums like these that all Atheists were wrong and even tried proving Jesus. But after reading the Bible a lot, I am now an Atheist.

I would say that Christian->Atheist happens more often than Atheist->Christian.

"True Christian->True Atheist->True Christian" is almost unheard of
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Old 04-11-2007, 05:50 PM #63
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I dislike the belief itself but love many Christians Besides, how many Christians love Atheism?
I do not like the thought, but I like the people. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for them. Im sure some Atheists feel sorrow for me as well.
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