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View Poll Results: Do you believe that there is no God or do you know that there is no God?
I believe that there is no God 51 62.96%
I Know that there is no God 30 37.04%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:09 PM #85
Randomperson
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Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
Well that is not true, because if you look at MPS, who calls himself an Atheist, but his atheism is considered to be weak atheism where yours is not.

But so far you are basically saying that you went from not thinking about god at all just accepting it with faithm to a belief in no God: a complete sudden 180 change. And while I don't believe this for a second, would you say that is accurate?
Pretty much, yeah. And that MPS guy sounds Agnostic to me.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:30 PM #86
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Pretty much, yeah.
So you woke up one day and decided "God cannot exist".
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:31 PM #87
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Pretty much, yeah. And that MPS guy sounds Agnostic to me.
I lack a belief in a deity at this very instance in time. I believe that qualifies me as an atheist. Although, whether I'm labeled an Agnostic or Atheist is of little significance.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:34 PM #88
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Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
So you woke up one day and decided "God cannot exist".
Honestly, I don't remember the transition. It was like 6 years ago.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:43 PM #89
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Honestly, I don't remember the transition. It was like 6 years ago.
So there was a transition that was not simply instantaneous?
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Old 04-02-2007, 06:44 PM #90
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So there was a transition that was not simply instantaneous?
The word transition does not imply instantaneous.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:27 PM #91
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The word transition does not imply instantaneous.
It doesn't imply anything besides that there was a change, but granted that your change was not instaneous, it means that you progressed towards your state of atheism, which once demonstrates that you have not always had supposed "infinite" knowledge of such matters, which demonstrates that your knowledge changes as time progresses and thus holding the belief of inifinite knowledge directly contradicts your experience.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:29 PM #92
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So you woke up one day and decided "God cannot exist".
and you woke up and one day and decided "God does exist"?

it's the same concept. neither side can 100% prove their beliefs.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:32 PM #93
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and you woke up and one day and decided "God does exist"?

it's the same concept. neither side can 100% prove their beliefs.
If you read this thread you would understand that I do not hold a belief in God, I just don't discount the possibility.

And neither side can prove their beliefs at all, it takes faith to accept or dismiss the existence of God entirely.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:39 PM #94
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and you woke up and one day and decided "God does exist"?

it's the same concept. neither side can 100% prove their beliefs.
someone took that statement a little out of context
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:31 PM #95
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It doesn't imply anything besides that there was a change, but granted that your change was not instaneous, it means that you progressed towards your state of atheism, which once demonstrates that you have not always had supposed "infinite" knowledge of such matters, which demonstrates that your knowledge changes as time progresses and thus holding the belief of inifinite knowledge directly contradicts your experience.
Damn... you win. You're good at debating. I'm still gonna use the term "know" to describe my standing on god's existence, or lack thereof, but I'm probably going to have to change my description of "know" to include complete faith in.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:33 PM #96
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Damn... you win. You're good at debating. I'm still gonna use the term "know" to describe my standing on god's existence, or lack thereof, but I'm probably going to have to change my description of "know" to include complete faith in.
So long as you accept that you have faith in atheism I can't touch you.
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:19 AM #97
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Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
So long as you accept that you have faith in atheism I can't touch you.
I tried so hard to stay away, but couldn't Even though I should know better, here goes...

I think you've reached that conclusion by redefining the words faith and atheism in a way to make that statement true. I'll not even address your use of the word faith, but atheism is, by definition, the lack of a belief. It requires no `faith` to not have a belief or to not believe in something. You are trying to imply that atheism is a religion just like Christianity and it's not.
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:34 AM #98
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I tried so hard to stay away, but couldn't Even though I should know better, here goes...

I think you've reached that conclusion by redefining the words faith and atheism in a way to make that statement true. I'll not even address your use of the word faith, but atheism is, by definition, the lack of a belief. It requires no `faith` to not have a belief or to not believe in something. You are trying to imply that atheism is a religion just like Christianity and it's not.
It is however a philosophy that one has faith in. To say that it is fact is like advocating the teaching of creationism in a biology class. We must realize the difference between science and philosophy. Atheism is a belief, not a science. One has to actively believe that a deity does not exist. Even then there is no scientific way to test or prove that.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:10 AM #99
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I tried so hard to stay away, but couldn't Even though I should know better, here goes...

I think you've reached that conclusion by redefining the words faith and atheism in a way to make that statement true. I'll not even address your use of the word faith, but atheism is, by definition, the lack of a belief. It requires no `faith` to not have a belief or to not believe in something. You are trying to imply that atheism is a religion just like Christianity and it's not.
There is a difference, because I set the atheists here into two groups, one who believes that god does not exist or has a lack of belief in God and those who know that god does not exist. If they know god does not exist, it takes faith to make that statement, I think I've laid that arguement down fairly solidly throughout this thread.
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--Murray Rothbard
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:29 AM #100
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Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
There is a difference, because I set the atheists here into two groups, one who believes that god does not exist or has a lack of belief in God and those who know that god does not exist. If they know god does not exist, it takes faith to make that statement, I think I've laid that arguement down fairly solidly throughout this thread.
It doesn't matter how you twist it around, no one knows. They can have all the faith in the world, but it's still just a belief.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:50 AM #101
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It doesn't matter how you twist it around, no one knows. They can have all the faith in the world, but it's still just a belief.
To claim you know that God absolutely does or does not exist takes faith. This belief cannot be proven by experience or empirical evidence, therefore the only way to "know" is to make a leap of faith. Yes it is still a belief, but it is a much stronger belief than, simply a lack of belief in God, which can be accepted without faith.

Edit: Let me rephrase this one more time: It takes faith to hold the belief that one knows that god does not exist.
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--Murray Rothbard

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Old 04-03-2007, 10:58 AM #102
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To claim you know that God absolutely does or does not exist takes faith. This belief cannot be proven by experience or empirical evidence, therefore the only way to "know" is to make a leap of faith. Yes it is still a belief, but it is a much stronger belief than, simply a lack of belief in God, which can be accepted without faith.

Edit: Let me rephrase this one more time: It takes faith to hold the belief that one knows that god does not exist.
Well, the way I took the definition of the word "know", is that it is fact or truth based at some point.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:59 AM #103
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Well, the way I took the definition of the word "know", is that it is fact or truth based at some point.
And in their perception of reality it is a fact or point of truth.
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It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
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--Murray Rothbard
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:05 AM #104
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And in their perception of reality it is a fact or point of truth.
Fact/truth is something that can be proven. Yeah, it may be "true" for that person, but that's just because that's what they believe, and what good is it if we all call what we believe truth? Then you have everyone passing bull**** off as fact.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:12 AM #105
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Fact/truth is something that can be proven. Yeah, it may be "true" for that person, but that's just because that's what they believe, and what good is it if we all call what we believe truth? Then you have everyone passing bull**** off as fact.
I'm not arguing the validity of holding a belief of knowledge based on faith, just trying to make everyone acknowledge that in order to know that there is no God faith is required.
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It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
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--Murray Rothbard
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