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Old 03-13-2007, 11:41 PM #64
nelspot 007
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Bridgeports don't use the same plug in that dryers use. They use 3-phase power. In most places you can't even get that in residential areas. Special power lines have to be used for 3-phase. In most areas, if you live more than so many feet from existing 3-phase power, you have to pay for every foot of line to get power where you need it.
Another point is 3-phase Power is for comercial use, which means a comercial electrical service and comercial rates for the electricity!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:32 PM #65
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where can i buy just a milling table?
i dont want the machine, just a table that has movement x, y, z (up/down, left/right, forward/backward) thanks
and how much do they run?
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Old 03-18-2007, 08:14 PM #66
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The cheapie import places have an X-Y table but no add on table has a Z rise. THey are around $200 to $300.

If you're thinking about using this to turn your drill press into a milling machine then I don't recomend it. I tried that before I got my own milling machine and it was HORRIBLE! I ran some motises in wood with it and that was fine but even trying to mill aluminium I was limited to very light cuts or it would chatter like a saxophone.
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:58 PM #67
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Those are really that expensive? I have an old one of those, only like less than a foot across, but weighs like 20 lbs. very cool, but not anchored down, we use it for the press..
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:06 AM #68
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Well here's a little one for $100
http://www.grizzly.com/products/h7979

But it's way too light to do more than some micro milling on anything metal or some medium milling on MAYBE aluminium or plastics. The next size up that they have that I would consider metal milling worth is just over $300.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7659

But the key is what would you use these for? As I mentioned very few if any drill presses are built to deal with the side forces that are generated in milling and most will chatter and complain loudly. Frankly I'm not sure who buys these tables or what they use them for but they are not a good option to try to turn a drill press into a milling machine. Been 'dere, done dat and it's not a purty sight or sound.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:50 AM #69
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A drill press is for drilling ....a mill is for milling AND drilling. Listen to Dead Body and what I said on your thread about these..save the money and buy a mill!!!
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:36 AM #70
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Looks great man. Well written.

Suggestions(sorry if you did talk about any of these)
-Round column vs square column
-Planning to convert to CNC or not(And you could even write up a TON of info on CNC converting alone. Or just cover the basics needed like drivers stepper motors or servo etc etc) Its needed for most anything cosmetic that aren't geometric shapes. CNC mills and Manuel mills both have their places. Your need to understand your goals before purchasing one or the other. Or converting at some point.
-Weight isn't the only thing that affects chatter. How its actually built does. Weight helps but if it has a poor structure then you'll run into accuracy issues not just chatter.
-A few new links. www.efunda.org and www.cnczone.com are also very good learning sites. Cnczone being forum based.
-Most machines that are sold by companies. especially your harbor freight enco grizzly machines. Everyone has the exact same model and may offer different options or prices but the actual mill or lathe is the same. Remember that!
-learn chip cutting formulas and find tables for feeds and speeds. I've seen a lot of people who make chips that seem "dusty" and I want to smash my head into a wall. That is not proper chip formation.

Well I think that's about it. Anyone who gets into this will have a lot of fun. For me its a hobby and a job!

Also. Mills inorder to be used as drilling must use center cutting end mills or drill bits! For manual mills DRO's are very handy or quick change collet system So you dont have to re-measure your distances when changing endmills or drillbits.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:52 PM #71
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But the key is what would you use these for? As I mentioned very few if any drill presses are built to deal with the side forces that are generated in milling and most will chatter and complain loudly. Frankly I'm not sure who buys these tables or what they use them for but they are not a good option to try to turn a drill press into a milling machine. Been 'dere, done dat and it's not a purty sight or sound.
The one I have is like neither of those, it has forward, back, and can rotate(it has t slots cut into it, I guess for anchoring pieces down). I only use it as a pedestal for drilling, I don't actually try and mill with it because I don't have the clamps for it. But I guess I could make some..
Edit: what's wrong with small chip size? I figured, the less you take off at a time, the less chatter and more precise your cuts would be. Any reason to having chips not dust?
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:21 PM #72
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There's nothing wrong with taking tiny cuts. Sometimes, smaller cuts cause more chatter. You develope a feel over time.

For every material and cutting tool combination there is a certain chip load that works well. It will give you a better finish and longer tool life. You can take off as much as you want though. It will machine, but it may not leave as good of a finish.
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Old 03-21-2007, 02:10 AM #73
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PBfanatic. Thanks for the comments.

I didn't get into CNC since that's a whole other level and this was supposed to guide folks into their first mill by avoiding some very common first timer misconceptions. CNC would have made the whole thing expand by another 3 or 4 max 10,000 word posts and wasn't the point of this writeup.

If you look at the machines there is one of them that has a good sized square post and it's the one I gave top marks to for the obviously rigid design, the square post that provided the Z travel and the overall size of the machine being well suited to paintball sized projects.

Nick E- Shavings, even very small and thin ones, are a good sign that the cutter is actually cutting. If you see what appears to be dust coming off the cutter from a very slow feed rate then it's possible that it's not cutting but is rubbing and galling the metal. Basically this is sort of a frictional tearing of the metal by rubbing hard rather than cutting. As Josh mentioned it usually leaves a horrible finish and since the cutter isn't actually cutting due to the very slow feedrate it will wear out the edge quickly and overheat the whole thing. There's a wide permissible variation in cut feeds but you want to be seeing actual chips coming off.
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:43 PM #74
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i didnt make it all the way through but you should probably touch on CNC. the part i read was very good

ehh just read above post
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:41 PM #75
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Well I think I did touch on CNC... The simple answer is... If you want to work on a marker or a few markers.. get a manual mill... If your looking to go into production making markers ..Get a CNC mill..Trying to do one off parts and prototype work on a CNC mill is like trying to wipe your arse with sand... damn near impossible and you end up with a hand full of **** when your done.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:44 AM #76
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Well I think I did touch on CNC... The simple answer is... If you want to work on a marker or a few markers.. get a manual mill... If your looking to go into production making markers ..Get a CNC mill..Trying to do one off parts and prototype work on a CNC mill is like trying to wipe your arse with sand... damn near impossible and you end up with a hand full of **** when your done.
now i don't agree with you their doing one off parts i think are simpler to make on a cnc mill then if it doesn't work you go back and make the adjustment cuts with a manual mill. you just gotta make your part with the dimensions in AutoCad or Inventor or solidworks or mastercam or any other program like that.but i guess if you dont have the experience with CNC mills manual would be easier instead of learning how to work the computer program and a mill.
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Old 04-01-2007, 02:29 PM #77
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props for an excellently written article! I've always wanted to try milling my own gun out for weight reduction, or making my own custom parts. unfortunately I've only worked a little with a CNC mill in a high school engineering class milling machinable wax. The shop where I work at has a CNC mill and several manual ones. Hopefully one of these days I can get my hands on one, thanks for the info!
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:07 AM #78
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now i don't agree with you their doing one off parts i think are simpler to make on a cnc mill then if it doesn't work you go back and make the adjustment cuts with a manual mill. you just gotta make your part with the dimensions in AutoCad or Inventor or solidworks or mastercam or any other program like that.but i guess if you dont have the experience with CNC mills manual would be easier instead of learning how to work the computer program and a mill.
I also think it's easier to do many one of's on a CNC mill. It doesn't take me very long to do the programming. If something has a lot of curvy features, it's definately easier to do on a CNC.

The only thing I'd prefer to do on a manual is something that is fairly simple.
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Old 04-04-2007, 01:32 AM #79
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I thought this thread was for new mill buyers? I wouldn't put my ego body in a CNC until I know the program is right. If you only have one shot at milling something a manual is the way to go.
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:06 AM #80
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There are numerous ways to verify programming before doing the actual cutting.

Like I said before, some cuts just aren't possible on a manual, or some are but only with a ridiculous amount of work and set-up. Many times it's actually faster and easier to do it on a CNC. And since you can easily verify the programming before cutting there's really no reason not to use CNC. This comment:
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Trying to do one off parts and prototype work on a CNC mill is like trying to wipe your arse with sand... damn near impossible and you end up with a hand full of <del>****</del> when your done.
just isn't true.

And yes, this thread was made for people who are looking into buying a milling machine. What about it?

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Old 04-05-2007, 06:07 AM #81
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Well I guess your better at programing than me! I always use a manual mill to do prototype work. It's easier for me. Everytime I try on one of the bridgeport's or Dynopath I end up making 3 or 4 to get it right.
Yes compound cuts are easier on a CNC once your set up. Maybe I'm just showing my age..lol
The reason I said this is a thread for people looking to buy a manual mill, is why are we arguing about what a CNC is used for. A person looking to get started shouldn't get a CNC for there first mill.
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Old 04-20-2007, 03:07 PM #82
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im sure youll say this is crap but is this really all that bad?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=39743

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Old 04-20-2007, 03:25 PM #83
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I wouldn't own it. Tiny machines like that are nothing more than a pain in the ***. You are forced to take shallow cuts and usually end up with a crappy finish. You also have an annoyingly small work area.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:52 PM #84
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alright thank you.

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