[zderekv]

could someone explain the differences between an open bolt and a closed bolt. also, what's a blow back design? you can tell me which guns have which but what i'm really looking for is a technical explanation of each.

[SmartBomb77]

Try wikipedia.org

There are alot of things to say about both. Autocockers are closed bolt, so the bolt is past the breech, hence "closed". The marker has to be fired once to load the first ball. Open bolt guns, like egos, have the bolt in the rearward position after the marker is aried up.

Some say open bolt guns are more accurate, but that's bs.

Someone else can explain it better than me; I am on my way out of the house, so it was kinda rushed.

[sperm1369]

If your guns aired up, look into the feedneck. If you can see the bolt its a closed bolt. If you cant see the bolt it is open bolt. Guns that you have to cock back are open too. Not too many guns are closed bolt. Cockers and old school shockers are closed bolts. Open bolt would be your ion, timmys, new shockers and ego's.

For example, when a cocker is aired up the bolt is forward. When you pull the trigger the bolt opens, a ball falls into the breech the bolt comes forward and fires.

On a timmy the bolt goes to the rear when you air it up. The ball is free to fall into the breach. When you pull the trigger air is applied to the rear of the ram which sends the bolt forward and fires the ball.

Here is a picture of a cockers (closed bolt) operation:

[Jlausen]

Smartbomb really explained it.

Closed bolt means that when the ball is fired, the bolt is "closed", or pushed forward in the breech. This includes Autocockers and Omens.

Open bolts are when the ball is fired when the bolt moves forward, so the breech is open previous to the trigger pull.

Blowbacks are just markers that use a sear to release the bolt and fire. They are open-bolts, and they use a striker, which is usually seated under the bolt and that is what opens the valve.

There are tons of animations, and I'm sure someone will bring them up. I can't find them right now.

[chodeyg]

Closed bolt markers also seem more accurate because the marker will not kick until after the ball is fired.

[fAllout_oMen]

Its been proven that closed bolts are no more accurate than open bolts. Dont buy into that myth.

My omen was closed bolt, my timmy is open bolt. I dunno what the big deal is, i actually like open bolt better.

[The_Hawk]

Originally Posted by chodeyg

Closed bolt markers also seem more accurate because the marker will not kick until after the ball is fired.

Shot for shot, closed bolt operation provides no accuracy boost over open bolt operation. Plus, someone a while back proved mathematically that the "kick" really isn't that much of a difference.

[therealmr]

Not many guns are closed-bolt anymore - or were ever, for that matter

Autocockers are and old shockers are.. there's one more that is an electro out there that is, I forget the name

[The_Hawk]

Originally Posted by therealmr

Not many guns are closed-bolt anymore - or were ever, for that matter

Autocockers are and old shockers are.. there's one more that is an electro out there that is, I forget the name

Excalibur, and the Omen I guess.

[thebusinessman2]

Originally Posted by fAllout_oMen

Its been proven that closed bolts are no more accurate than open bolts. Dont buy into that myth.

My omen was closed bolt, my timmy is open bolt. I dunno what the big deal is, i actually like open bolt better.

arnt omens blowbacks thats wut people at my field say but they could be wrong

[The_Hawk]

Originally Posted by thebusinessman2

arnt omens blowbacks thats wut people at my field say but they could be wrong

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=776974
Yes, but that's how they work.

[yuik]

closed bolt is more accurate because the way the air hits the ball. it hits it naturally and it is all directed down the barrel because the breech is sealed. ALSo nothing is moving when your gun is shooting so for that shot you have no kick or reciold-end of story.
closed bolt-ftw
and blow forward guns are similiar but different. they really are great for co2 users because they can handle wide pressure fluctations and your gun will still recock due to the fact that a spring recocks it and air moves the bolt forward.
so blow forward -ftt

ps also closed bolt guns are soft on paint in the cold weather because its not hitting the paintball then shooting air at it like the open bolt guns. the ball is just sitting in the breach and the air hits it so it will chop less. I have owned a spool valve, may stacked tube blowbacks, and other open boltguns and trust me they shoot like **** when the temp drops below 20. my cocker doesnt havethat problem at all. Same thing for my phantom

[wjr]

Originally Posted by yuik

closed bolt is more accurate because the way the air hits the ball. it hits it naturally and it is all directed down the barrel because the breech is sealed. ALSo nothing is moving when your gun is shooting so for that shot you have no kick or reciold-end of story.
closed bolt-ftw
and blow forward guns are similiar but different. they really are great for co2 users because they can handle wide pressure fluctations and your gun will still recock due to the fact that a spring recocks it and air moves the bolt forward.
so blow forward -ftt

ps also closed bolt guns are soft on paint in the cold weather because its not hitting the paintball then shooting air at it like the open bolt guns. the ball is just sitting in the breach and the air hits it so it will chop less. I have owned a spool valve, may stacked tube blowbacks, and other open boltguns and trust me they shoot like **** when the temp drops below 20. my cocker doesnt havethat problem at all. Same thing for my phantom

AHHH!!!!

No. No. No. No.

The purpose of a bolt is to seal the breech. Whether it's an open or closed bolt gun, the bolt still seals off the breach from the feed area.

Open bolt just means that when the gun is at rest and not firing, the bolt is in the forward position.

And when you shoot an closed bolt gun, like a cocker, the ram/lug (whatever it's called) moves when you shoot. And the bolt and lug have to be recocked by the pneumatics, thus causing some recoil.

And the part about the blow forward guns doesn't make any sense at all.


Just sort of curious here.... where are you getting all of this from?

[woodpusher91]

Originally Posted by wjr

AHHH!!!!

No. No. No. No.

The purpose of a bolt is to seal the breech. Whether it's an open or closed bolt gun, the bolt still seals off the breach from the feed area.

Open bolt just means that when the gun is at rest and not firing, the bolt is in the forward position.

And when you shoot an closed bolt gun, like a cocker, the ram/lug (whatever it's called) moves when you shoot. And the bolt and lug have to be recocked by the pneumatics, thus causing some recoil.

And the part about the blow forward guns doesn't make any sense at all.


Just sort of curious here.... where are you getting all of this from?

qft. a closed bolt won't be anymore accurate then an open bolt. accuracy depends on paint to bore match and other factors

[wjr]

Originally Posted by woodpusher91

qft. a closed bolt won't be anymore accurate then an open bolt. accuracy depends on paint to bore match and other factors

When did I say anything about accuracy in that whole post?

[zderekv]

thanks guys, i got the answers i was looking for.

[Mr.Dirt]

Originally Posted by yuik

closed bolt is more accurate because the way the air hits the ball. it hits it naturally and it is all directed down the barrel because the breech is sealed. ALSo nothing is moving when your gun is shooting so for that shot you have no kick or reciold-end of story.
closed bolt-ftw
and blow forward guns are similiar but different. they really are great for co2 users because they can handle wide pressure fluctations and your gun will still recock due to the fact that a spring recocks it and air moves the bolt forward.
so blow forward -ftt

ps also closed bolt guns are soft on paint in the cold weather because its not hitting the paintball then shooting air at it like the open bolt guns. the ball is just sitting in the breach and the air hits it so it will chop less. I have owned a spool valve, may stacked tube blowbacks, and other open boltguns and trust me they shoot like **** when the temp drops below 20. my cocker doesnt havethat problem at all. Same thing for my phantom

So then what is this said hammer do when I pull the trigger do?

[cockerdude55]

bolt position is where the bolt is when its ready to fire, a closed bolt is forward thus sealing the feedneck and must cock back then fire forward to shoot( every seen an autococker fire) a open bolt mean that the bolt is back leaving the feedneck open so it only has to move forward to fire the ball then moves back. for this reason autocockers tend to be a little more air efficient, also many closed bolt guns dont have detents so the ball can fall out if you tip it forward.

[saint9121]

Originally Posted by yuik

ps also closed bolt guns are soft on paint in the cold weather because its not hitting the paintball then shooting air at it like the open bolt guns. the ball is just sitting in the breach and the air hits it so it will chop less. I have owned a spool valve, may stacked tube blowbacks, and other open boltguns and trust me they shoot like **** when the temp drops below 20. my cocker doesnt havethat problem at all. Same thing for my phantom

agreed! me and my friends where shooting around in my back yard last week when it was below freezing and they kept getting barrel breaks when i wasnt. (they were using egos and i was using my cocker) same paint same bore size and one of them was using the same barrel too.

[Wdp Victory]

i heard that if u shoot a cocker fast ,it"turns" to a open.if u know what i mean

tis true?

[r37r18u710n]

Originally Posted by yuik

closed bolt is more accurate because the way the air hits the ball. it hits it naturally and it is all directed down the barrel because the breech is sealed. ALSo nothing is moving when your gun is shooting so for that shot you have no kick or reciold-end of story.
closed bolt-ftw
and blow forward guns are similiar but different. they really are great for co2 users because they can handle wide pressure fluctations and your gun will still recock due to the fact that a spring recocks it and air moves the bolt forward.
so blow forward -ftt

ps also closed bolt guns are soft on paint in the cold weather because its not hitting the paintball then shooting air at it like the open bolt guns. the ball is just sitting in the breach and the air hits it so it will chop less. I have owned a spool valve, may stacked tube blowbacks, and other open boltguns and trust me they shoot like **** when the temp drops below 20. my cocker doesnt havethat problem at all. Same thing for my phantom

Interesting, because I can think of a few things that are moving when the ball is fired. Trigger, sear, hammer, cocking rod, numerous springs, valve, air, and of course, YOU! I'm pretty sure all that makes up for a little bit of movement, maybe?

Originally Posted by Wdp Victory

i heard that if u shoot a cocker fast ,it"turns" to a open.if u know what i mean

tis true?

Nope.