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Old 01-08-2007, 04:45 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwac View Post
If there are millions of species of insects alone and he brought two of each then how is it posible he would cram all the animal of the world into that one little ark? I just dont get it unless he freezdried them so they were smaller and cramed them so no oxigen was left.
1. There weren't millions of species back then.
2. He didn't need to take all of them, only the ones that could not survive a flood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_manbot_revenge View Post
Yes, because there is enough water to cover a SMOOTH earth right? Oh, i thought in the bible it says that the water COVERED the mountains. mountains = not smooth.

There is no way that there is enough water to cover the entire planet, unless the ghost in the sky magically made more water and then took it away.
He said "a smooth earth up to 8,000 feet", which would include mountains. Earth is either extremely smooth, or extremely rough depending on what scale you look at it. From a world-wide standpoint, Earth is extremely smooth and almost perfectly round.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:47 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
1. There weren't millions of species back then.
2. He didn't need to take all of them, only the ones that could not survive a flood.



He said "a smooth earth up to 8,000 feet", which would include mountains...
proof facts etc?

there is NOT enough water to cover the planet.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:51 PM #24
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Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
7 months and 17 days. When I used to help my grandpa feed his goats it tooks us about 10-15 minutes and he had nearly 70 goats. Want to do the math?
So you fed his goats, ok. You fed 1 species, in a simple environment, using an established system. Now, do this in an enclosed space, for hours upon hours, and then add in waste disposal, freshwater delivery, other tasks, and combine it all with living on a outlandishly massive and consequently difficult to maintain wooden ship.

Also- did you account for rest in your math? I didn't check.
EDIT: in that situation, it would take 1 person 2 mins 20 seconds to feed in this manner (per goat), leaving 40 seconds to complete any other tasks that animal might need, and this is using your more than generous figures and situation.
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:02 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
1. There weren't millions of species back then.
2. He didn't need to take all of them, only the ones that could not survive a flood.



He said "a smooth earth up to 8,000 feet", which would include mountains. Earth is either extremely smooth, or extremely rough depending on what scale you look at it. From a world-wide standpoint, Earth is extremely smooth and almost perfectly round.
Utilizing RP's estimate of the number of species allowed upon the Ark, (35,000-50,000), it would inevitably mean that the number of species over the past 4,500 years has increased by 50 fold. (Roughly 2,000,000 discovered species, with the distinct possibility of millions more) If one does not include insects or organisms of that sort (i.e. they were not allowed upon the Ark), how does one propose these species arose?
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:28 PM #26
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isnt it physically impossible beacuse the clouds can not hold that much percipitation and if there was that much water that could get into your lungs you would drown
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:32 PM #27
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So were did all those insects come from?
like said this story has a good amount of holes.
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:17 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
My answers based on my studies and beliefs and opinions:
1. 450x75x75, 3 full decks.
2. Yes, it was designed to float, not sail. it may have had a moonpool in the center. there were no large masts to catch wind etc. essentially a large barge. The ark may have had large stones suspended over the sides to keep it a bit more stable in harsh/stormy weather. the 6:1 length to width ratio is commonly used for shipbuilding.
3. 2 of each kind and 7 each of "clean" (food) animals. I do not believe that there were "millions" of species., I believe that there were maybe 35000-50000. Part of the challenge that some have is they think of the ark as a floating zoo. when it was not designed that way, it was a intensive livestock confinement, where animals are raised in the minimum possible space with the maximum amount of labor saving devices employed. It was designed to be temporary captivity for a year.
4. probably, but there is no mention of them specifically, only of 2/7 of kinds of animals.
5. about 4500 years or so ago.
6. brought food for them. I believe the barge was of sufficient size to allow this.
7. about 100 years (yes, I do believe this as actual years).
8. yes, his sons and probably the wifes.
9. it's still here, there is enough water in the polar caps and oceans to cover a smooth earth probably about 8000 feet. I also believe that the large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood.

I personally do not see an issue. I see that it would have been a challenge, but definitely not impossible. Part of the problem is the paradigm that people of 4500 years ago or so were not intelligent enough to complete something like this. I disagree with that paradigm. I don't think they had the "technologies" (tools) that we have today, but that shouldn't, in my opinion, equate intelligence.
i seriously dont know what to say to you if you think a 30,000 foot tall mountain that grows 2 inches a year didnt exist 4,500 years ago.

or how a single man could build a boat to handle 70,000 animals.
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:25 PM #29
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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
no RP, its not physicaly posible. Ive proven that, geneticly, it is not posible that 2 of every creature could put all the species back on earth. I haven't even delved into the biodiversity, the differnt creatures unable to live outside specialised envoment they exist in (example, northwestern american spotted owl is unable to exist outside old growth trees and can not fly/glide for more than short timespans.)

its hooey, bobkis, a flat out lie, as proven by science.
How are you positive those different breeds didn't later evolve from the original two?
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:41 PM #30
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Quote:
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i seriously dont know what to say to you if you think a 30,000 foot tall mountain that grows 2 inches a year didnt exist 4,500 years ago.
You do realize that the mountain didn't grow up from 2 inches a year, right? They're not trees. Most mountains, hills, and canyons resulted from seismic movements over a short period of time.
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:48 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_manbot_revenge View Post
proof facts etc?
Well since most post was clarifying a statement made by rambopreacher, and not making a statement or claim whatsoever, I suppose my source is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
My answers based on my studies and beliefs and opinions:
9. it's still here, there is enough water in the polar caps and oceans to cover a smooth earth probably about 8000 feet. I also believe that the large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood.
Happy?

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Old 01-08-2007, 07:09 PM #32
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SO why are the mountains there after the flood? What made them all in 4000 ish years? India just didnt crash into asia in that time and neather did most plates.
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:13 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
Well since most post was clarifying a statement made by rambopreacher, and not making a statement or claim whatsoever, I suppose my source is this:



Happy?
If you want to quote a post by rp where he states there were no large mountains until after the flood that would then dispute mt ararat being in existence until after the flood
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:17 PM #34
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Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
If you want to quote a post by rp where he states there were no large mountains until after the flood that would then dispute mt ararat being in existence until after the flood
No. I was clarifying the post because he was confused by the wording. It would be about the same as if I quoted you and then fixed the grammatical errors in your post so someone could understand it...
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:25 PM #35
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What ever lets not quarrel about grammar or spelling or setence structure.
We have came hear to try to argue about a topic that both sides will not admit defeat with.
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:41 PM #36
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The Bible states that the water rose 40 feet above the highest mountain. It does not state the specific area of that mountain or the height of it. Please provide me with the calculations you used to figure out how the ice caps could cover the world by 8,000 feet above sea level, because I'm interested in seeing them.

The "God provided" argument is, in my opinion, a cop out. Science has proven various things impossible, and religion has yet to prove it possible in modern times. As one person I know once said: "God used to be all mighty, then came science. We've been chipping away at his power base ever since."

I do believe that major flooding occured in the Tigris and Euphrates area, which is where Noah is believed to have lived in the Biblical era. Flooding in that area WOULD be viewed as a flood destroying all life and existance. And quite frankly, early historians had a habit of exaggerating.

If you're going to use the "species just speciated like usual" argument, then you're getting borderline on admitting to the existance of evolution, which throws off the Bible quite a bit.

There's very little solid ground to stand on, on the Bible side, the way I see it.
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:47 PM #37
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Why didn't other civilizations that existed at the time document a global flood?

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Old 01-08-2007, 07:51 PM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_manbot_revenge View Post
Yes, because there is enough water to cover a SMOOTH earth right? Oh, i thought in the bible it says that the water COVERED the mountains. mountains = not smooth.

There is no way that there is enough water to cover the entire planet, unless the ghost in the sky magically made more water and then took it away.
8000 feet is a lot of depth. However, I did assume you were familiar with the Noahic flood account in the Bible that says that the water was only 15 cubits (a measurement usually translated to about 18 inches, so about 22 and a half feet) above the highest mountain.
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i seriously dont know what to say to you if you think a 30,000 foot tall mountain that grows 2 inches a year didnt exist 4,500 years ago.
of course, that assumes that you believe that all mountains only "grow", and only 2 inches a year. regardless of catastrophic events such as a global flooding, and it's affects to the tectonic plates.
Quote:
or how a single man could build a boat to handle 70,000 animals.
he didn't do it by himself, he had 3 sons, and their wives, and over a period of about 100 years. - but this is what I believe (and others that agree), that doesn't mean you have to.
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:55 PM #39
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With the ice caps.
How did it all go away and then freeze to form the ice caps, because it would have to be some sort of ice age(not the little one recording around the 1800's and 1700's) which isnt documented.
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Old 01-08-2007, 08:41 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TESlight'emupTES View Post
How are you positive those different breeds didn't later evolve from the original two?
*bangs head on desk* yes, 100% because you still would have to have FAR more genetic displacement than 2 breeders to evolve into more breeds.
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Old 01-08-2007, 09:12 PM #41
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We are talking about around 20,000 species (round number from what I've read in here) so 20,000 x2 is 40,000, right? How could all those species walk to Noah's house before the flood happens?
And how could a single man build a frigging huge boat to handle 40,000 animals, feed them and give them their appropriate climate for them to survive a long time?

Other question, what about the trees? They did survive to the flood?
And the insects, god put them back on earth?

Thank you for answering my questions, really interesting discussion by the way.
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Old 01-08-2007, 09:28 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
My answers based on my studies and beliefs and opinions:
1. 450x75x75, 3 full decks.
2. Yes, it was designed to float, not sail. it may have had a moonpool in the center. there were no large masts to catch wind etc. essentially a large barge. The ark may have had large stones suspended over the sides to keep it a bit more stable in harsh/stormy weather. the 6:1 length to width ratio is commonly used for shipbuilding.
3. 2 of each kind and 7 each of "clean" (food) animals. I do not believe that there were "millions" of species., I believe that there were maybe 35000-50000. Part of the challenge that some have is they think of the ark as a floating zoo. when it was not designed that way, it was a intensive livestock confinement, where animals are raised in the minimum possible space with the maximum amount of labor saving devices employed. It was designed to be temporary captivity for a year.
4. probably, but there is no mention of them specifically, only of 2/7 of kinds of animals.
5. about 4500 years or so ago.
6. brought food for them. I believe the barge was of sufficient size to allow this.
7. about 100 years (yes, I do believe this as actual years).
8. yes, his sons and probably the wifes.
9. it's still here, there is enough water in the polar caps and oceans to cover a smooth earth probably about 8000 feet. I also believe that the large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood.

I personally do not see an issue. I see that it would have been a challenge, but definitely not impossible. Part of the problem is the paradigm that people of 4500 years ago or so were not intelligent enough to complete something like this. I disagree with that paradigm. I don't think they had the "technologies" (tools) that we have today, but that shouldn't, in my opinion, equate intelligence.
So you are saying Noah built it in 100 years, eh? How old do you think he was when he started? And he then captured and loaded 50,000 animal species, along with food onto the ship, all in his lifetime?
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