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Old 01-08-2007, 12:23 AM #1
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The Flood and the Ark.

Ok so I've always been interested in the one major story of the bible that is taught to children all over the world, through books/cartoons/comics/action figures..etc.
The thing I find is the mannnnnny flaws that would make noahs flood story not feasable.
So i'm asking some people to answer some questions. Again i am looking for answers that don't end with "well god made it so."
I'm looking for a answer that works in the world we live in.

1. Exactly how large was the Ark
2. Was the ark sea worthy? How so?
3. How many animals did noah take onboard?
4. did noah also take insects that couldn't fly?
5. How long ago did the flood occur?
6. How did noah feed all the animals on the boat?
7. How many days did it take Noah to build the Ark?
8. Did Noah have help?
9. Where did all the water go?
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:00 AM #2
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1. only god knows
2. god made it sea worthy
3. everyone
4. yep
5. 40 days and 40 nights
6. god fed them
7. like 2
8. god helped
9. god took it
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:55 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero View Post
Ok so I've always been interested in the one major story of the bible that is taught to children all over the world, through books/cartoons/comics/action figures..etc.
The thing I find is the mannnnnny flaws that would make noahs flood story not feasable.
So i'm asking some people to answer some questions. Again i am looking for answers that don't end with "well god made it so."
I'm looking for a answer that works in the world we live in.

1. Exactly how large was the Ark
2. Was the ark sea worthy? How so?
3. How many animals did noah take onboard?
4. did noah also take insects that couldn't fly?
5. How long ago did the flood occur?
6. How did noah feed all the animals on the boat?
7. How many days did it take Noah to build the Ark?
8. Did Noah have help?
9. Where did all the water go?

Let me give you the scientific answer: It did not happen.

Now the religious answer: We knw it is not physically possible, but it happened cause the bible says so.
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:39 AM #4
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Old 01-08-2007, 08:20 AM #5
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1. 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. Based on measurements given in the Genesis account, most experts agree that the ark had approximately 1,500,000 cubic feet of free space. So we can gasp the size, the ark would be equivalent in volume to 522 standard American railroad stock cars
2. Yes. The ark based on above dimensions would have had an appropriate draft, ton displacement, and center of gravity.
3. 2 of every kind.
4. It says animals. (Certain interpretations hold only birds and mammals could be defiled, so only they were carried aboard the ark.)
5. Possibly between 2300-2500 b.c.
6. Unsatisfying to the unbeliever, but God provided.
7. 100 years.
8. Yes.
9. Ocean, skies, ice caps, look around.

These may offer another Christian perspective you haven't been exposed to.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff...ml#noahs_flood
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apo...cs/flood.shtml
http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf...#let_us_reason
http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf...#let_us_reason

This one is more specific to the logistics.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf...#let_us_reason
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Old 01-08-2007, 09:40 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
1. 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. Based on measurements given in the Genesis account, most experts agree that the ark had approximately 1,500,000 cubic feet of free space. So we can gasp the size, the ark would be equivalent in volume to 522 standard American railroad stock cars
2. Yes. The ark based on above dimensions would have had an appropriate draft, ton displacement, and center of gravity.
3. 2 of every kind.
4. It says animals. (Certain interpretations hold only birds and mammals could be defiled, so only they were carried aboard the ark.)
5. Possibly between 2300-2500 b.c.
6. Unsatisfying to the unbeliever, but God provided.
7. 100 years.
8. Yes.
9. Ocean, skies, ice caps, look around.

These may offer another Christian perspective you haven't been exposed to.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff...ml#noahs_flood
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apo...cs/flood.shtml
http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf...#let_us_reason
http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf...#let_us_reason

This one is more specific to the logistics.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf...#let_us_reason

*waits for the "biblical" answer to how they overcame genetic degradation*
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Old 01-08-2007, 10:20 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero View Post
Ok so I've always been interested in the one major story of the bible that is taught to children all over the world, through books/cartoons/comics/action figures..etc.
The thing I find is the mannnnnny flaws that would make noahs flood story not feasable.
So i'm asking some people to answer some questions. Again i am looking for answers that don't end with "well god made it so."
I'm looking for a answer that works in the world we live in.

1. Exactly how large was the Ark
2. Was the ark sea worthy? How so?
3. How many animals did noah take onboard?
4. did noah also take insects that couldn't fly?
5. How long ago did the flood occur?
6. How did noah feed all the animals on the boat?
7. How many days did it take Noah to build the Ark?
8. Did Noah have help?
9. Where did all the water go?
My answers based on my studies and beliefs and opinions:
1. 450x75x75, 3 full decks.
2. Yes, it was designed to float, not sail. it may have had a moonpool in the center. there were no large masts to catch wind etc. essentially a large barge. The ark may have had large stones suspended over the sides to keep it a bit more stable in harsh/stormy weather. the 6:1 length to width ratio is commonly used for shipbuilding.
3. 2 of each kind and 7 each of "clean" (food) animals. I do not believe that there were "millions" of species., I believe that there were maybe 35000-50000. Part of the challenge that some have is they think of the ark as a floating zoo. when it was not designed that way, it was a intensive livestock confinement, where animals are raised in the minimum possible space with the maximum amount of labor saving devices employed. It was designed to be temporary captivity for a year.
4. probably, but there is no mention of them specifically, only of 2/7 of kinds of animals.
5. about 4500 years or so ago.
6. brought food for them. I believe the barge was of sufficient size to allow this.
7. about 100 years (yes, I do believe this as actual years).
8. yes, his sons and probably the wifes.
9. it's still here, there is enough water in the polar caps and oceans to cover a smooth earth probably about 8000 feet. I also believe that the large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood.

I personally do not see an issue. I see that it would have been a challenge, but definitely not impossible. Part of the problem is the paradigm that people of 4500 years ago or so were not intelligent enough to complete something like this. I disagree with that paradigm. I don't think they had the "technologies" (tools) that we have today, but that shouldn't, in my opinion, equate intelligence.
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Old 01-08-2007, 11:31 AM #8
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My questions:
1) wasn't Noah like 500-650 years old during the flood? So he discovered the entire world and every animal in it in about 8 of our life times?

2) Did Noah build restraints for every animal on the Arc so that they wouldn't eat each other?

3) Did Noah shovel thousands of animals droppings overboard or did the Arc smell like a floating sewer.

4) Where did they store the food/water for that many animals and Noah and Noah's sons and their wives.

5) Why did God create thousands of sinners and then decide they didn't deserve to live, did he create them just so he could kill them later?

6) Do the dimensions work out correctly? I read somewhere that the bible suggests their was hundreds of thousands of animals per square foot.
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Old 01-08-2007, 12:31 PM #9
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Well we all know it didn't happen. Its impossible.
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:50 PM #10
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Well we all know it didn't happen. Its impossible.
I disagree with your statement of fact. There are many that do believe it happened, and that it is possible.
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:58 PM #11
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
I disagree with your statement of fact. There are many that do believe it happened, and that it is possible.
no RP, its not physicaly posible. Ive proven that, geneticly, it is not posible that 2 of every creature could put all the species back on earth. I haven't even delved into the biodiversity, the differnt creatures unable to live outside specialised envoment they exist in (example, northwestern american spotted owl is unable to exist outside old growth trees and can not fly/glide for more than short timespans.)

its hooey, bobkis, a flat out lie, as proven by science.
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:04 PM #12
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I believe there was a flood. I believe it is recorded in the Bible. I don't necessarily hold that it covered the entire surface of Earth. Therefore, in my opinion, the flood is not a lie.
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:06 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
My questions:
1) wasn't Noah like 500-650 years old during the flood? So he discovered the entire world and every animal in it in about 8 of our life times?

2) Did Noah build restraints for every animal on the Arc so that they wouldn't eat each other?

3) Did Noah shovel thousands of animals droppings overboard or did the Arc smell like a floating sewer.

4) Where did they store the food/water for that many animals and Noah and Noah's sons and their wives.

5) Why did God create thousands of sinners and then decide they didn't deserve to live, did he create them just so he could kill them later?

6) Do the dimensions work out correctly? I read somewhere that the bible suggests their was hundreds of thousands of animals per square foot.
1. Biblically speaking, God brought the animals to him, he didn't go get them.
2. of some type, probably, but not as much as one might think. the Bible leads us to believe that all animals were vegetarians (including people) prior to the flood.
3. maybe, but probably not, studies have shown that there would be about 12 tons or so per day, and knowing this the cages/areas could be designed so that the excrement could be disposed of a bit more easily.
4. on the ark some feasibility studies say that about 47% of the space would be used for animals, 12% or less for food and about 10% for potable water.
5. God didn't create sinners.
6. I believe they do work out - average of about 2.5 square meters or so for each juvenile animals, based on those studies.
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:09 PM #14
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What people aren't exactly understanding... is that God is not bound to our physical laws. Thermodynamics? Not for God. Applies to everything earthly and tangible, but not God (just an example).
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Old 01-08-2007, 03:24 PM #15
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Someone here give me an exact numerical answer for this, and you'll see my point.
1.How many people were on the ark?
2.How many animals were on the ark?
3.How much time per hour would each animal receive?

Think about how many people there are at Zoos.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:08 PM #16
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1. 8
2. Based on the ideas presented here max of a couple thousand, many of which being birds.
3. If there were 3,000 then they would each get about 21 min. a week. This also doesn't take into account that the animals could be kept in groups which would optimize work time efficiency.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:27 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.StraightPride View Post
What people aren't exactly understanding... is that God is not bound to our physical laws. Thermodynamics? Not for God. Applies to everything earthly and tangible, but not God (just an example).
gee how convienent. "God made it so" what a wonderful answer....
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:31 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
1. 8
2. Based on the ideas presented here max of a couple thousand, many of which being birds.
3. If there were 3,000 then they would each get about 21 min. a week. This also doesn't take into account that the animals could be kept in groups which would optimize work time efficiency.
so each animal will receive three minutes per day, for a year. Now consider how many people are employed at zoos, just to care for animals. They have to deal with bathing, feeding, cleaning, ark repair, bailing water,and any medical needs that may arise. I didn't check your math, but did you account for resting on the seventh day, and giving them no more than 12 hours of work a day?
EDIT: I still can't find a scientific way to get that 3000 figure, it seems to be no more than a ballpark. If you could point out an exact spot, it would be appreciated.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:38 PM #19
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
My answers based on my studies and beliefs and opinions:

9. it's still here, there is enough water in the polar caps and oceans to cover a smooth earth probably about 8000 feet. I also believe that the large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood.
Yes, because there is enough water to cover a SMOOTH earth right? Oh, i thought in the bible it says that the water COVERED the mountains. mountains = not smooth.

There is no way that there is enough water to cover the entire planet, unless the ghost in the sky magically made more water and then took it away.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:42 PM #20
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7 months and 17 days. When I used to help my grandpa feed his goats it tooks us about 10-15 minutes and he had nearly 70 goats. Want to do the math?
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:43 PM #21
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If there are millions of species of insects alone and he brought two of each then how is it posible he would cram all the animal of the world into that one little ark? I just dont get it unless he freezdried them so they were smaller and cramed them so no oxigen was left.
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