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Old 12-19-2006, 07:35 PM #1
theunjustclash
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God all forgiving?

God is all forgiving correct? Then how is there a Hell? Just curious.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:42 PM #2
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All forgiving if you are truly sorry, not just saying that.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:44 PM #3
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Originally Posted by theunjustclash View Post
God is all forgiving correct? Then how is there a Hell? Just curious.
He is all-forgiving if you ask it of Him. You must repent of your sins. You cannot sin your whole life, not ask for forgivness, and then go to Heaven.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:51 PM #4
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He is all-forgiving if you ask it of Him. You must repent of your sins. You cannot sin your whole life, not ask for forgivness, and then go to Heaven.
Thats what I mean, you have to be TRULY sorry, you cant just sin, be sorry, sin , be sorry over and over and get away with it. You have to be really sorry and not take advantage of his kindness.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:53 PM #5
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God is more than willing to forgive any sin you can devise, all you have to do is accept Him as your Lord and Savior, and to repent and ASK Him to forgive you with a convicted heart. Every person is born a sinner, and we are all destined for Hell the second we leave the womb, however, if you give your life to God he will forgive and forget anything you do as long as you repent.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:00 PM #6
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On the authority of Anas, who said:
I heard the Messenger Of God ( Peace Be Upon Him)say:

God the Almighty has said: "O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as its."
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:12 PM #7
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Here's what I don't understand. Assuming God is omniscient, then why is there a Hell to begin with knowing many of his children would be banished there? Why where these people created to begin with only to be banished to Hell? Somewhat like an animal raised solely for slaughter. Obviously God knew these people would sin, created them anyway bound to eternal damnation. Why would God create an entire group of people for this? To make a point?
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:24 PM #8
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When God created man he created us with the sole intention of spending eternity with us in heaven. We were made perfect, and completely sin free. However, when Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, they disobeyed God and condemned not only themselves but every single one of their descendents (the entire human race). But, because God created us with the freedom of choice, we are still able to have salvation by choosing to accept him and asking for his forgiveness, and ultimately allow us to enjoy eternity in Heaven.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:35 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd_17 View Post
When God created man he created us with the sole intention of spending eternity with us in heaven. We were made perfect, and completely sin free. However, when Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, they disobeyed God and condemned not only themselves but every single one of their descendents (the entire human race). But, because God created us with the freedom of choice, we are still able to have salvation by choosing to accept him and asking for his forgiveness, and ultimately allow us to enjoy eternity in Heaven.
Well being omniscient he knew they would eat the fruit and knows the choices you and I are to make. If he knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit then why have the tree there to begin with? Granted I do have a choice what I'm going to do but he knows before hand. So he know the outcome of every Man, Woman and Child on this planet. So by knowing Adam and Eve would eat the fruit they would damn mankind. Therefore he, by placing an forbidden fruit tree in the garden, damned mankind. So why did he do this?
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:54 PM #10
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GOD created mankind for the sole purpose of worshipping him and spending time on earth while obeying his laws

those of us who worship only him and obey him will enter paradise

but there are some who are evil and wicked and they shall enter hell


most of us view GOD as wicked by creating hell and sending some ppl into hell

GOD wants all of us to enter paradise and to do good to other people

however some ppl are to ignorant and reject GOD and what he has to offer

and thus enter HELL

GOD doesnt make our choices

we do...

but he does know what well choose
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:55 PM #11
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depends on definition of "all forgiving". I agree with others here that say He will forgive, if you repent and ask, but He won't automatically forgive all sin, even though the atonement has been made, because you have to accept that it has been paid. so in that sense, no - He isn't all forgiving, but he is just and righteous.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:59 PM #12
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Originally Posted by Believer View Post
GOD created mankind for the sole purpose of worshipping him and spending time on earth while obeying his laws

those of us who worship only him and obey him will enter paradise

but there are some who are evil and wicked and they shall enter hell


most of us view GOD as wicked by creating hell and sending some ppl into hell

GOD wants all of us to enter paradise and to do good to other people

however some ppl are to ignorant and reject GOD and what he has to offer

and thus enter HELL

GOD doesnt make our choices

we do...

but he does know what well choose


Did you just call me wicked and evil for not pleasing your God, and too ignorant for not "accepting" him? lol...


My questions are, how can God love us so much, but hell be so incredibly horrid?

And, shouldn't God understand that sometimes its HIS fault for lack of presence in our lives? No matter what anyone says, God has never been present in my life. And since I know you're going to say it, why hasn't he provided relatively solid evidence to me that he exists? Would God rather us believe in him for the sake of believing?

From my point of view, my life is about finding truth. So far, the truth is God does not exist. I have reasoned and reasoned and in my mind, it cannot be possible for a God to exist. Surely God understands my misguided reasoning? Or does he not care that I view things differently?
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:09 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
GOD created mankind for the sole purpose of worshipping him and spending time on earth while obeying his laws

those of us who worship only him and obey him will enter paradise

but there are some who are evil and wicked and they shall enter hell


most of us view GOD as wicked by creating hell and sending some ppl into hell

GOD wants all of us to enter paradise and to do good to other people

however some ppl are to ignorant and reject GOD and what he has to offer

and thus enter HELL

GOD doesnt make our choices

we do...

but he does know what well choose

So God knowingly made wicked people? He knows the choices people make, so he knowingly make some wicked? Wicked in the terms they don't acknowledge him? What about people that make this world a better place, those who help the sick, the elderly, the retarded. Those who really go out of their way to make the world better. If they don't worship God they are damned? Regardless on how they lived life?
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:56 PM #14
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It seems to me that god is actually the tempter, not satan, just from what has been said so far in this thread...
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:04 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
GOD created mankind for the sole purpose of worshipping him and spending time on earth while obeying his laws

those of us who worship only him and obey him will enter paradise

but there are some who are evil and wicked and they shall enter hell


most of us view GOD as wicked by creating hell and sending some ppl into hell

GOD wants all of us to enter paradise and to do good to other people

however some ppl are to ignorant and reject GOD and what he has to offer

and thus enter HELL

GOD doesnt make our choices

we do...

but he does know what well choose
Question for you. Say your in a country that doesnt allow freedom of religion. (I dont know specifics but there were some countries) So they cant read about god, and the bible, they are FORCED to read about other religions. Does that damn them to hell even though they are restricted by people holding their lives if they dont obey. What happens to those "sinners"?
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:15 PM #16
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I'm pretty sure God allows all his children into heaven if they never had the chance to even know about him. It says it somewhere in the bible, ask X_Paint.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:36 PM #17
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Originally Posted by ClawHammer View Post
So God knowingly made wicked people? He knows the choices people make, so he knowingly make some wicked? Wicked in the terms they don't acknowledge him? What about people that make this world a better place, those who help the sick, the elderly, the retarded. Those who really go out of their way to make the world better. If they don't worship God they are damned? Regardless on how they lived life?
What you misunderstand is this, Man cannot fully comprehend this, but God knows everything that is going to happen. It is true, but we do have a choice. When you are about to lie, you have the choice to tell the truth or not, noone is forcing you to do either. God created man, but it was mans own heart that brought it its downfalll. Eve had the choice to eat of the tree, she ate of it, because she was promised the knowledge of Good and evil. Evil in her heart, the want for power to be equal to God is waht causes sin. Adam right after fell for the same thing. Because man's heart is evil, we are born into sin. We are born sinners. Not because of the things we do, just because we are born into sin. Its because we were born into sin, that causes us to break the commandments.

Back onto the subject, whenever you are about to break a commandment, you are given a choice, break it, or keep it. God gives us that choice, that free will, he already knows what we are going to pick, but it was still our choice to pick it.

Man sinned on his own with the fruit, because of that sin, it is carried onto the rest of man kind.

Those who help this sick, the elderly, the mentally disabled, they may do good things, but they are still bad people. Our God is perfect, he has never done anything wrong, sin cant even touch him. So seeing as how that person who helped the sick, elderly, or mentally disabled was born into sin, they are sinners just the same. And God being a perfect God cannot be touched by sin, cannot be in hte presence of sin, thus those "good" people are still found sinful without a savior.

God made man in his own image originally, man was perfect, man sinned on his own, God being perfect, is not able to be touched by sin, so he was forced to dam the sin to hell. Fortunately, even though we screwed up big time, God gave us a redeemer because he loves us. That is where Jesus Christ came in, who bore the sin of the entire world on his shoulders, and it was crucified with him. Basically, you gotta trust in him to remove your sins. Yes we screw up alot and go agaisnt Gods commandments, but does it not have forgiving all over it, if God gives us so many second chances, that whenever we screwed up, we can repent of it and He just forgives and forgets. But nothing is free if you know what i mean, you have to trust on Jesus Christ to save you.

Now i have some questions for you. Have you ever taken the name of God in vain? Have you ever stolen something? (stealing classifys as taking anything no matter of what value, physical or non physical, from someone else without permission) Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever looked at another person with lust? (The bible says if a man looketh at a woman and desireth her, he has commited adultry in his heart) Have you ever hated someone? (The bible says that if you hate someone to the point you would kill them, than you have murdered them in your heart)

So if u have, just once of each, that makes you a Blasphemous, Thieving, Lying, adulturous, murderer. And thats only from 5 of 10 commandments. The Bible says that anyone foudn with sin will not be allowed into hte kingdom of heaven. So by the Standard shared in the Bible, can anyone honestly say you are a "good" person? Good is perfect, and noone is perfect. You may be "better than some others" person, but thats not enough, you have to be perfect. So by that standard, do you honestly think you will go to heaven, or that you deserve to go to heaven? Noone deserves to go to heaven and everyone deserves hell. The only difference is that God was merciful enough to send his son. The real question is will you accept him?
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:42 PM #18
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What you misunderstand is this, Man cannot fully comprehend this, but God knows everything that is going to happen. It is true, but we do have a choice.
Ok, if god knows the future, why would he create an anti christ that he knew he was going to fight (Armageddon)? Does he like fighting or what?
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:59 PM #19
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But still the point is he knew that Adam and Eve would have eaten the fruit. He knew from that point on mankind was damned from birth. That every single human born there on after was an automatic sinner. When man was made in his image and perfect why wouldn't he want to preserve it. It just doesn't add up, why would God, (being forgiving, loving and accepting of all his children) damn them to a life such as what you describe. Why should billions of people need to suffer? If I had something that was very valuable to me, not in terms of monetary, I would try to stop them/it from hurting itself or effecting others beyond it.
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:38 AM #20
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chodeyg-How can you say that God has never made himself present in your life? You are on a forum, discussing his very existance with CHRISTIANS, i.e., His servants, people that He sent to witness to you.

Clawhammer-The problem with this argument is that we can only look at it through the eyes of man. It boils down to the fact that our minds just simply cannot fathom how it can be that God knows everything that will happen, but yet we have freedom of choice. It is a supernatural thing, therefore the natural reaction is to just shirk it off as false. As a Christian though, I know that I'm not supposed to understand it, just acknowledge it and accept it.
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:40 AM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawHammer View Post
So God knowingly made wicked people? He knows the choices people make, so he knowingly make some wicked? Wicked in the terms they don't acknowledge him? What about people that make this world a better place, those who help the sick, the elderly, the retarded. Those who really go out of their way to make the world better. If they don't worship God they are damned? Regardless on how they lived life?
Yes. You cannot earn your way into Heaven through good deeds. Christ said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That means that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, then you won't go to Heaven.
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