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Old 12-12-2006, 04:05 PM #43
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There's alot of speculation surrounding the fall of Lucifier, but alot can be found in the last book of the bible, the book of revelation. Satan did sin, the sin of pride, before Adam and Eve. Satan was the one who tempted them with the apple.
So Revelation then?
My question prolly belongs in another thread.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:19 PM #44
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So, we disobeyed-- Then why do we believe we are Gods greatest beings?

None of us are worthy to ever hear God.-- We are all imperfect, and sinners.
Because if you believe in the Bible, in Genesis it states that all of the plants and animals are created for us. Second of all look through the Old Testament, there are plenty of times that God interacts with lowly humans, even times when he uses people to be prophets for him.

Also while Adam and Eve and the issue of God's sexuality are being discussed, I would point out that Adam was created and he named all of the beasts. Among the beasts there was not a suitable companion found for Adam, and so it is only then that God created Eve... not to be rude.. but as an after thought.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:30 PM #45
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Because if you believe in the Bible, in Genesis it states that all of the plants and animals are created for us. Second of all look through the Old Testament, there are plenty of times that God interacts with lowly humans, even times when he uses people to be prophets for him.

Also while Adam and Eve and the issue of God's sexuality are being discussed, I would point out that Adam was created and he named all of the beasts. Among the beasts there was not a suitable companion found for Adam, and so it is only then that God created Eve... not to be rude.. but as an after thought.
So you are basically saying "God just did."
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:36 PM #46
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Because if you believe in the Bible, in Genesis it states that all of the plants and animals are created for us. Second of all look through the Old Testament, there are plenty of times that God interacts with lowly humans, even times when he uses people to be prophets for him.

Also while Adam and Eve and the issue of God's sexuality are being discussed, I would point out that Adam was created and he named all of the beasts. Among the beasts there was not a suitable companion found for Adam, and so it is only then that God created Eve... not to be rude.. but as an after thought.

Key Phrase: IF you believe in the bible.

Secondly the bible tells two different stories behind adam/Eve.
Adam and eve created
Adam created...names animals, can't find one he likes...god creates eve.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:21 PM #47
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Man = All MANkind (including female)
This was before female was created.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:36 PM #48
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Key Phrase: IF you believe in the bible.

Secondly the bible tells two different stories behind adam/Eve.
Adam and eve created
Adam created...names animals, can't find one he likes...god creates eve.
Agreed on the first point, a lot of what is said in these discussions is said to be truth, but only if you believe that doctrine to be truth. Personally, I used to be a Christian, and now I am not. But I am still interested in these discussions, and I am willing to use the Bible to make my points.

Secondly,the bible does not tell two stories of Adam and Eve's creation. The first mention in the first Chapter of Genesis just states that he created both man and woman in his image. Chapter two goes into greater detail about how and when they were created, such as how Adam was formed from the dust of the earth, and Eve was formed from Adam's rib.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:42 PM #49
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God made Adam first in His image. Then He later decided to create a partner for Adam which was Eve a female. Since He created Adam first in His image that is why He is referred to as a man.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:44 PM #50
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ocmadballer why did u stop being a Christian.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:49 PM #51
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anthropomorphic terminology.
Si.

Also, Jesus was a male, and, I assume, they believe (Since God was apart of the Jesus-God-Holy Spirit trinity) God was, in fact, a male.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:53 PM #52
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So, we disobeyed-- Then why do we believe we are Gods greatest beings? Even more so, that the son of God was one of us? Wouldnt God just create a more perfect kind, instead of dealing with one as flawed as mankind?



None of us are worthy to ever hear God.-- We are all imperfect, and sinners.



Do you not become the narrative you follow? If you are a Christian, does your flesh not become Christian? If you are an Atheist, does your flesh not become Atheist? That is who you are after all?
You make God seem as some indifferent, impersonal God. He's not. Try reading the Bible and learn about him.

EDIT* Apparently, that came across as harsh or cynical... It was meant to be.

Last edited by fuhrer325 : 12-12-2006 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:02 PM #53
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ocmadballer why did u stop being a Christian.
It's a hard question to answer really. All I can say is that for several years I dedicated myself to following the teachings of the Bible (specifically the New Testament). That is to say that I was raised all my life in the church, but when I got to be about 15 I decided to walk my own path and find my own faith. Long story short, I had some amazing experiences with some amazing people, but at the end of this time, I felt no closer to God than I did before. Closer to his teachings and his people, yes, but no closer to God. That is when I decided to try and live my life by my philosophy and my values, and just to leave the door open to God. If he wants to call me, I'll be listening.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:17 PM #54
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Originally Posted by fuhrer325 View Post
You make God seem as some indifferent, impersonal God. He's not. Try reading the Bible and learn about him.
Pretty much what I was thinking....


Xone, you presented a fairly decent topic to debate...and then ruined it.

You say how God is perfect and all human beings are worthless and should never have any interaction with a higher power.

What is the point of religion then? What is the point if we can't interact with and believe that a higher power will help us, protect us, support us?

I know a lot of Christians would not support me with this, but hopefully someone here will. Christianity should not be about God being perfect and humans living in fear and constant need to repent for forgiveness or mere "interaction." It should be about forgiveness, tolerance, and helping people. In that case, God should want to help us or support us, not ignore us because we have sinned and are imperfect.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:27 PM #55
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in a much nicer way.
I was a afraid of that. I'll edit. It wasn't meant to be.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:05 PM #56
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god is referred to as a man because it was a man that wrote the bible
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:09 PM #57
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god is referred to as a man because it was a man that wrote the bible

Yep, he just set it down and wrote all of it in one night, didn't he?
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:55 PM #58
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Originally Posted by fuhrer325 View Post
You make God seem as some indifferent, impersonal God. He's not. Try reading the Bible and learn about him.

EDIT* Apparently, that came across as harsh or cynical... It was meant to be.
How do you know God is not indifferent and impersonal? If God gave us freewill, then why is God not impersonal? Have you ever talked to God? How would you know what God is and what God isnt?

About the bible thing-- I would say something, but I would get banned.

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What is the point of religion then? What is the point if we can't interact with and believe that a higher power will help us, protect us, support us?
Religion is a narrative, a way to live your life according to someone who claims they have talked to the creator of all. There really is no point, if you create your own narrative, instead of living by one that was already instituted. There is a point to believing in God, but not in religion.

Last edited by XOne : 12-12-2006 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:56 PM #59
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How do you know God is not indifferent and impersonal? If God gave us freewill, then why is God not impersonal? Have you ever talked to God? How would you know what God is and what God isnt?
Like I said... Read the Bible...
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:00 PM #60
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Like I said... Read the Bible...
How do you know the bible is the actual word of God?
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:03 PM #61
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How do you know the bible is the actual word of God?
Well, let me say this. If you believe in the Christian God, you should believe in the Bible, at the very least, fundamentally.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:24 PM #62
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I didn't say he didn't do it in one night plus the bible has been retranslated many times things could have changed in those translations whose to say they got it right?
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:28 PM #63
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I didn't say he didn't do it in one night plus the bible has been retranslated many times things could have changed in those translations whose to say they got it right?
But history shows us that it would be pretty much impossible for 1 author. I don't really see how you could believe that, even if you don't believe in what the bible says.
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