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Old 12-12-2006, 03:39 PM #22
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In the baptist religion sex is something that is looked apon with a good note, while only encouraged in marriage it is said to be something married couples are suppose to enjoy, but is frowned apon outside of marriage like most religions
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:09 PM #23
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Why should masterbation be frowned upon? It's human nature.
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:28 PM #24
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That's actually a pretty good question. What a stupid "moral".
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:16 AM #25
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Why should masterbation be frowned upon? It's human nature.
That doesn't make it ok. Human nature is evil.
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:59 PM #26
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So really... In this oh so holy book called the bible, they expect humans (lusting, sexual beings) to not have sex in anyway, including masturbation. I mean really, if "God" made us the way that we are, why would he deem you as unworthy or dirty for acting upon the feelings that he placed in you. I find it kind of stupid to be deemed weak, or dirty for something that is more "pure" in some Christians eyes than having sex outside of marriage.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:04 PM #27
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Well, you have to look at humanity as a whole. We get married much later in life now than they used to. Depending on the culture, you could have been married off at 13. So thus why people have urges so young. Now we get married later and it seems to be more of a problem.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:28 PM #28
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That doesn't make it ok. Human nature is evil.
Why is it evil? Why is choking the chicken evil?
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:35 PM #29
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That doesn't make it ok. Human nature is evil.
Well ****! Aint that a B.


Seriously though, don't you think that's strange? If your nature is evil, wouldn't that make all your desires evil? Thus making just about everything you do evil?
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:05 PM #30
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akatch, im sorry to contradict you but your decription of the Jewish side of that story is inaccurate, the Shekhina is the somewhat tangible "center" of God's presence, and I am quite sure no sex happened in the temple. BUT Judaism heavily encourages sexual intercourse, not even when your married, but once you have sex with someone, u must marry them and then only have sex with them (until a divorce) it encourages it, because it is a way to have children which we see as the holiest possible thing, it deepens the bond between a man and a woman, and its fun (no joke). The masturbation thing, in Judaism, is that it is a waste of life (sperm) there is controversy about whether teenagers are "permitted" to masturbate, seing as the laws prevent us from procreating till a certain age
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:35 PM #31
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if it human nature the i guess we all do it? I mean im shure most of us didnt start until grade 5-6 (when i started) lol but thats my point
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:44 PM #32
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What's this now? Shekinah was a rare and VISIBLE manifestation of God's presense that's recorded a few times in the OT. It's got NOTHING to do with any 'female half' of God.

From Wikipedia: "Some comparative Religionists have suggested a comparison to shakti, the female energy of Hindu gods."

Hindus, not Jews.

Wikipedia: anyone can write in it


Not a good source, not fact.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:47 PM #33
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I think masturbation is a sin because you're wasting your seed as well as lusting. God favors procreation.


I think believing in a diety is a sin against the human race and human development because it is ignorant.


Sex is different than making love. Making love is when you get an amazing feeling all throughout yourself and you really feel like you are special. Only way I could describe the feeling in words: "It felt like I touched an angel."

Mind you sex is just *hump* *HumP* *Hump* *HuMp* *orgasm!*
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:57 PM #34
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That doesn't make it ok. Human nature is evil.

Say that to the humans that created your God and the humans that created your religion and the humans that created all religion and all Gods for a sense of security and a sense of morals when there were no other guidelines.

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This is where you are wrong, and this is coming from experience!

The desire to "test drive" a marriage demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding what makes a marriage work. It also shows a real lack of faith in one's love for the other. In one sense, the couple is saying that they desire intimacy, but on the other hand they want to leave a way out if the partner doesn't measure up. This sows seeds of doubt and distrust from the start. Some couples seem to be under the impression that a good relationship won't have disappointments. When they marry and the disappointments come, they often bail out.
But when you truely love someone and you are truely truely giving your heart and soul to them, sex isnt sex, its making love its that extra feeling you get along with it. Different people can give you the different feelings, married or not.

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Now this is a brilliant idea, but instead of waiting till marriage, we should wait until we find a person with whom sex will mean something. If one waits till marriage, then discovers that the sex is unsatisfying, it could potentially ruin the marriage. I'm not trying to be shallow here, but it's been PROVEN that monogamous couples who have lots of consensual, fulfilling sex are happier than couples who don't, and there really is a sort of bond that occurs, and when done with the right person, it really does bring you closer. All I'm saying is, you need to sample the apple before you buy the bushel.
Quote for ****ing truth. No kidding. This is why I'm allergic to abstinance.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:55 PM #35
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Say that to the humans that created your God and the humans that created your religion and the humans that created all religion and all Gods for a sense of security and a sense of morals when there were no other guidelines.
That's interesting. You THINK you really, really know that you're 100% right. But that's just it. You don't. I don't either, but you have to realize, you really DON'T know that anything you just said is 100% factual, no matter how much you think you do. I know that if many scientists don't know, YOU don't know.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:05 PM #36
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I think believing in a diety is a sin against the human race and human development because it is ignorant.
I'd like to hear how ignorant you think I am.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:57 PM #37
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That's interesting. You THINK you really, really know that you're 100% right. But that's just it. You don't. I don't either, but you have to realize, you really DON'T know that anything you just said is 100% factual, no matter how much you think you do. I know that if many scientists don't know, YOU don't know.

No its 100% true that humans wrote the bible. Its 100% true they changed it over 100 times in the last 1000 years. Its well known they did those two, its well known most of the stories are impossible or not true.

Just give up.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:58 PM #38
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I'd like to hear how ignorant you think I am.
Ignorant enough to belive in God . Oh Hunter, don't get so butthurt when other people pull in their beliefs, you put yours out there, I put mine out there as well.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:19 AM #39
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Its 100% true they changed it over 100 times in the last 1000 years.
No way, man. I challenge you to find a single credible source for that. We have copies way older than 1000 years so changing it would mean nothing. It's reliable.
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:22 AM #40
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I'm not coming down on ya at all Not. This is just a personal observation from the posts that you are leaving.

It would be easier for everything you said to be true because it would justify how you feel. When you see others talking about it, you get a lil angry because you don't want any of it to be true, even if they do have more reasons to believe than you do to not believe.

Just tone it down a bit and we can all talk without getting annoyed. Ya know?
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:40 PM #41
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Why should masterbation be frowned upon? It's human nature.
It is not just human nature! It is corrupted human nature. Sexual urges are not bad in and of themselves, it is what we do with these urges that can lead to sin. And even if something like sex is originally meant to be something that is good and natural, that does not mean it is without boundaries or guidelines to live by. For example, because sleep is good, imagine that you decide to sleep until one in the afternoon on a school day. You walk into school with the creases from your pillow still embedded in your face. When your teacher asks where you have been, you yawn, wipe the drool from your chin, and remind him that sleep is good and so you were enjoying sleep. You add that when you go home you will probably eat thirty pounds of Girl Scout cookies because eating is good too. Needless to say, while sleep and food are good, they do have their limits. Similarly, the good gift of sex has its boundaries as well--and the boundary for sex is marriage. When we take sex outside of marriage, it is like taking fire out of the fireplace. The beautiful gift can quickly become destructive.

But what about the fact that sex feels so natural? I'm married, so let's say that one day at work I decide to have an affair with my secretary. When I come home, my wife asks how my day was. I tell her that work went well, the drive home was pleasant, and that I cheated on her. Upon hearing this, she throws my belongings onto the front lawn. To ease her pain, I point out how "natural" the affair was. Needless to say, she would not be comforted. She is well aware that the fact that sex is natural is not a sufficient reason to engage in it.

Although pleasure is a natural result of sex, it is not the purpose of sex. In the same way, eating is naturally pleasurable but the purpose of eating is nourishment, not pleasure. If you confuse the primary reason for eating with its benefits, you become a glutton. Similarly, the purpose of sex is procreation and union (babies and bonding). If you confuse either of these purposes with the additional benefit of pleasure, you abandon love and use the other as an object of lust. Love is abandoned because using a person is the opposite of loving her.

When people argue that couples should be free to have sex outside of marriage, they do not realize what they're asking for. To "liberate" sex from the confines of marriage is like a child liberating his goldfish from its bowl--not a great idea. In the same way, the intimacy of sex was never meant to be separated from the total intimacy that makes up married life. It was not meant to be "free." By saying that sex should be given away freely, we are basically saying that it is not worth anything. When we divorce sex from marriage, we will inevitably meet with disappointment. We are trying to grab the privileges of marriage without accepting the commitment and sacrifice that must accompany the gift of total intimacy.

The same misconstrued way of thinking can go for other things as well like, why is premarial sex so bad if it feels so good? But we can't determine the morality of an action based upon how good it feels . For exampe, I'd probably feel pleasure if I cheated on my husband. Rapists and child molesters feel pleasure, but no one would doubt that their actions are immoral. Likewise, things that cause tremendous pain can be acts of great love, as when one person gives his life for someone else. If we measured the goodness of an act by the pleasure received, then adulterers would be virtuous and war heroes would be scoundrels.

If you really want to know the morality of an act, "Do not conform yourself to this age, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect" (Rom. 12:2).
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:43 PM #42
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Why is it evil? Why is choking the chicken evil?
So basically you are asking, what's wrong with masturbation? It's a way of getting rid of your temptations without leading anyone into sin.

Masturbation doesn't get rid of temptations any more than a prostitute does. Both may temporarily relieve sexual desires, but our goal as Christians is not simply to get rid of temptations, but to glorify God with our bodies. The idea that masturbation can be used to decrease sexual desires is like saying that lighter fluid can be used to extinguish a fire. If anything, masturbation incites lustful thoughts and teaches a person that he or she deserves--and needs--sexual gratification whenever the desire arises.

To understand why masturbation is wrong, we need to step back from the world's constant clamoring for sexual "needs" and go back to God's plan for sex. Sexuality is meant to be a gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of babies and bonding. When it is taken out of that context the gift is degraded--and in the case of masturbation, altogether ceases being a gift. The purpose of sexuality is abandoned, because the center of the sexual act becomes "me" instead of "we" and the person is trained to look to himself for sexual fulfillment. The gift of one's sexuality is misused for the sake of lifeless pleasure. Only selfless giving will fulfill you.

When people misuse their sexuality in this way, they begin to use pleasure to change their mood, release tension, or forget their loneliness. Masturbation becomes an escape. It may pacify them, but it will never satisfy them, because they'll always want more. They use the fantasies of their mind and the pleasures of their body to flee from reality and the call to love. Their goal in sexual activity has been reduced to merely receiving pleasure instead of showing love. If men and women have trained themselves to use their sexuality in this way, why would this suddenly change once they're married? The husband or wife will simply be a substitute for the fantasies, to be used in place of self. They may even imagine the fantasies while with their spouse. The problem is that the lust will be transferred to the other, not healed within.

Worse yet, merely getting married will not cure their problem with masturbation. Because masturbation has trained disordered impulses in them, the true pleasures of marriage--though far superior--may not appease their warped attachments. Where will they turn to find those pleasures within marriage? Often, they'll continue to struggle with masturbation, to the sorrow and distress of their spouse, and to the detriment of their marriage. A person who does not preserve his own purity when alone will have a difficult time remaining pure with another. If he lacks self-control when alone, he will be unable to properly give himself to his spouse when the time comes. You can not give what you do not control. No self-control equals no gift of self. To the extent that there is no gift of self, there is no love. If you want to be able to genuinely love your spouse, you must build self-mastery.
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