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Old 12-10-2006, 09:21 PM #1
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Bible questions:

I've been a Chrisitan for my whole life, but now I've been feeling more and more skeptical of the Bible..

How do they know each and every word Jesus/other people say when the disciples aren't around? Even when the disciples are asleep while Jesus is praying in the last days of Jesus' life, how do they know every word of his prayers?

Secondly, why bother utilizing Moses as a tool? Why couldn't God simply convinced the Egyptian pharoah to let the Jews go? Why love/care for the Jews of all people?

How can God love everyone when Jews are his "chosen people"? That hints that they are more favorable to God.

How are all the people in the New World during Jesus' time supposed to know the word of God? God says to go spread the word to everyone, but they didn't even know that the New World existed until nearly a millenia and a half later.

If anyone that's knowledgable can help me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:02 PM #2
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I've went over these discussions with my Bible teacher a million times. I cant remember all the answers but if you believe in the Bible go to church a Baptist church and ask him this stuff. My Bible teacher could always prove me wrong. I'm sure a good pastor can give you answers. Don't lose faith in God I'm praying for you.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:18 PM #3
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Originally Posted by x420psykoticx View Post
I've been a Chrisitan for my whole life, but now I've been feeling more and more skeptical of the Bible..
Congratulations! You're on your way...

Quote:
How do they know each and every word Jesus/other people say when the disciples aren't around? Even when the disciples are asleep while Jesus is praying in the last days of Jesus' life, how do they know every word of his prayers?
They don't. Christians say you need faith, but this statement is used merely because they have no evidence of such matters. They might also say the "Holy Spirit" guided the authors of the Bible, which is a total farce.

Quote:
Secondly, why bother utilizing Moses as a tool? Why couldn't God simply convinced the Egyptian pharoah to let the Jews go? Why love/care for the Jews of all people?
Exodus has been disproven. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus_Decoded

Quote:
How can God love everyone when Jews are his "chosen people"? That hints that they are more favorable to God.
It does seem so. Why would "God" even play favorites?

Quote:
How are all the people in the New World during Jesus' time supposed to know the word of God? God says to go spread the word to everyone, but they didn't even know that the New World existed until nearly a millenia and a half later.
They aren't. "Everyone" meant the currently known world. "God" seemed to have a quirky absence of knowledge of anything unknown in that time

I hope I helped you some
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:20 PM #4
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You asked some good questions. A couple of them are easier to answer while a couple involve a lot. I would talk to a youth pastor or another pastor about these issues. I cringe at what ST will throw at you. I'll work on the questions, but it will take a bit of time to get to all of it. I really encourage you to ask a pastor about it to see if whatever comes on ST stands up to what he/she thinks.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:52 PM #5
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It's questions like these that make me favor the more liberal branches of the church, like most of the Episcopalians who I know. I think there are almost innumerable contradictions and problems within the Bible that simply cannot be explained.

I try not to take it all too literally.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:03 PM #6
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thats the problem with the bible, is that it contradicts itself over and over again. not only that, but people are constantly picking and choosing what to take literally and what to write off as mistakes. the bible is the backbone of the christian and catholic faith. thats why they are "religions of the book". how on earth can you possibly not take the teachings of your religion, the "word of god" seriously? its inconcievable! its either literal, or its not, there can be no gray area.

to the threadstarter, you my friend, are taking very small steps on the road to freedom
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:53 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Deadheadpballer View Post
thats the problem with the bible, is that it contradicts itself over and over again...
I disagree with you on this point. there are no contradictions in the Bible.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:07 PM #8
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I disagree with you on this point. there are no contradictions in the Bible.
Matthew 1
Quote:
2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[a] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Luke 3
Quote:
23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
the son of David, 32the son of Jesse,
the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon,
33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e]
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
These genealogies do not seem to reconcile.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:15 PM #9
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Both are geneologies of Jesus. the difference is that Lukes Gospel is directed toward the common man and therefore the genealogy goes all the way back to Adam. Matthews Gospel is decidedly for a more Jewish audience from their father Abraham to King David. When the genealogies arrive at David; they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side). There is no discrepancy because one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. the tradition and custom was to use the father's even though it was actually the lineage of Mary.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:18 PM #10
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Both are geneologies of Jesus. the difference is that Lukes Gospel is directed toward the common man and therefore the genealogy goes all the way back to Adam. Matthews Gospel is decidedly for a more Jewish audience from their father Abraham to King David. When the genealogies arrive at David; they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side). There is no discrepancy because one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. the tradition and custom was to use the father's even though it was actually the lineage of Mary.
Really, I thought it was Muhammads geneology.

Yea, I started both at Abraham. So this actually is not a contradiction of genealogy, but that it is contradicting by saying that it is showing Joseph's line when it is actually Mary's?
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:24 PM #11
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Really, I thought it was Muhammads geneology.

Yea, I started both at Abraham. So this actually is not a contradiction of genealogy, but that it is contradicting by saying that it is showing Joseph's line when it is actually Mary's?
nope, not at all. by saying that the genealogies fall into male and female representations was acceptable in the ancient Near East culture since it was often impolite to speak of women without proper conditions being met: male presence, etc. Mary was counted "in" Joseph and under his headship (this is also common understanding in the Quran).
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:57 PM #12
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I disagree with you on this point. there are no contradictions in the Bible.
you mean god can be omnipresent, al knowing, and posess the power to do things that are beyond human comprehension but he somehow neglected to make humans beyond the capacity to sin? more than that, he lacks the power to control aything that happens to us?
thats just 2, the threadstarter stated some, and there are plenty more. the bible contradicts itself plenty
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:12 PM #13
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How do they know each and every word Jesus/other people say when the disciples aren't around? Even when the disciples are asleep while Jesus is praying in the last days of Jesus' life, how do they know every word of his prayers?

We don't know the exact words that Jesus spoke in the Garden of Gethsemane. We just know what happened though the acount of the disciples.

Secondly, why bother utilizing Moses as a tool? Why couldn't God simply convinced the Egyptian pharoah to let the Jews go? Why love/care for the Jews of all people?

God has always used prophets to declare his word. God won't take away our agency to make choices. He gave the pharoah plenty of opportunity to make a wise choice but he hardened his heart towards God. He cares for the Jews becase they are his chosen/covenant people. /


How can God love everyone when Jews are his "chosen people"? That hints that they are more favorable to God.

Even if they are his chosen people, he can still love everyone. He's everyones Father in Heaven, not just the Jews.

The Jews linage(judah) going back to Abraham, were promised blessings that were given to Abraham and his posterity.


How are all the people in the New World during Jesus' time supposed to know the word of God? God says to go spread the word to everyone, but they didn't even know that the New World existed until nearly a millenia and a half later.

Ever heard of the The Book of Mormon? Its about the people in the Americas, just like in the Bible is about the old world.

After Christ was resurrected he went and essablished his church in the Americas just like it was in the old world.

In John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Its talking about the people in the Western Hemisphere. And what about the ten lost tribes, don't you suppose he is speaking of them also?
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:51 PM #14
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I'll hit the middle 2 questions first for giggles. Excellent questions, btw.

Why Moses?

This is a huge question that I'll try to answer briefly. Moses was a way of seeing the future Messiah. Some of his life was to represent what the Messiah would do for people. He led them out of slavery and into a new citizenship. This is exactly what Jesus would do through his life, death, and resurrection. He got us out of slavery to sin and gave us a new citizenship with him. Could God just have made Egypt let them go? Yup, but that would have defeated his plans. They are well drawn out and require a lot of deep thought when you look at it, but its still simple enough to understand without knowing all the details. If God would have just made Pharoah let them go, that would have messed up with his plans and free will of many, many people. Had God did it another way, most likely we would still have people saying he did it the wrong way or shouldn't have done it that way, ya know?

Why the "chosen people"

The Israelites did nothing to earn this favor. In fact, if you read the bible, you'll see that they really kept on slapping God in the face. But he loved them and honors his covenant with them. They also represent something deeper in his plans. They were meant to be a holy nation, visible to all. He was to lead them. They represent the followers of the Messiah, all of those who know who he is and follow after. Just as the Israelites were to be a holy nation, so are those who follow Jesus. They are supposed to be visible in the world and make known their God. God chose them and not the other way around. Had he chosen any other nation, we would ask the same thing. Like I said, there's always something deeper.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:07 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x420psykoticx View Post
I've been a Chrisitan for my whole life, but now I've been feeling more and more skeptical of the Bible..

How do they know each and every word Jesus/other people say when the disciples aren't around? Even when the disciples are asleep while Jesus is praying in the last days of Jesus' life, how do they know every word of his prayers?
The entire bible was passed down orally for many years. Many people at the time felt Jesus would return in their lifetime, so it would be pointless to write down what happened if the end of the world was coming soon.(This and the fact that almost no one could read, and actually writing down stuff was EXTREMELY hard to do at this time) So because the stories were passed down orally, the stories slightly changed every time it was told to fill in the blank spaces. The original writers of the bible were just writing what they feel like happened.
Secondly, why bother utilizing Moses as a tool? Why couldn't God simply convinced the Egyptian pharoah to let the Jews go? Why love/care for the Jews of all people?
God gave us free will. God never to my knowledge forces someone to do anything. When the ancient Hebrews(not Jews) fled from Egypt, it showed the people at the time these stories where being told(and now) of how powerful their God really can be. And He loves and cares for the Jews of all people, because they are Gods chosen people...
How can God love everyone when Jews are his "chosen people"? That hints that they are more favorable to God.
In the old testament, it becomes aware that God really does favor his descendants of Abram(Abraham) over other people. But throughout the bible it talks of Gods love for all man kind. It's confusing really, but shows that there are numerous writers of the bible.
How are all the people in the New World during Jesus' time supposed to know the word of God? God says to go spread the word to everyone, but they didn't even know that the New World existed until nearly a millenia and a half later.
I don't really understand sorry
If anyone that's knowledgable can help me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
These are all MY opinion, I have been a student of Catholicism and Christianity for 10 years. I am answering these with the most knowledgeable information I can, and apologize if I am wrong.

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Old 12-13-2006, 09:10 PM #16
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you mean god can be omnipresent, al knowing, and posess the power to do things that are beyond human comprehension but he somehow neglected to make humans beyond the capacity to sin? more than that, he lacks the power to control aything that happens to us?
thats just 2, the threadstarter stated some, and there are plenty more. the bible contradicts itself plenty
he gave us freewill for a reason. and he has provided for an "interference", if we will accept it.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:15 PM #17
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These are all MY opinion, I have been a student of Catholicism and Christianity for 10 years. I am answering these with the most knowledgeable information I can, and apologize if I am wrong.
thanks for the disclaimer. one minor point is that you mention that there is an oral tradition for "hundreds" of years. I assume you are talking about the New Testament, and while there was most certainly oral passing of stories and "scripture", hundreds of years is way off base for the NT canon of scripture. In fact, most of the canon of the NT was chosen precisely because it was first century documents (so, less than a hundred years, and in fact probably closer to 30-70 years). now with that said, we don't have the autographs of the original documents, but we have copies of manuscripts that are copies of copies etc...
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:33 PM #18
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thanks for the disclaimer. one minor point is that you mention that there is an oral tradition for "hundreds" of years. I assume you are talking about the New Testament, and while there was most certainly oral passing of stories and "scripture", hundreds of years is way off base for the NT canon of scripture. In fact, most of the canon of the NT was chosen precisely because it was first century documents (so, less than a hundred years, and in fact probably closer to 30-70 years). now with that said, we don't have the autographs of the original documents, but we have copies of manuscripts that are copies of copies etc...
Ah good point. I do recall it was roughly estimated that long. Sorry for the Hyperbole.
Thanks for pointing that out
I was typing some stuff here about The Old testament/ Latin and if the New Testament Canon would follow similar rules. But I didn't have all the info I wanted, and I think it would be somewhat irrelevant to any subject we are discussing here.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:11 AM #19
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Don't throw that incorrect Wiki article around here. The Israelite captivity and Exodus has an enormous amount of historical and archaeological evidence behind it. I have the material to show it as such.


Quote:
Originally Posted by x420psykoticx
I've been a Christian for my whole life, but now I've been feeling more and more skeptical of the Bible..
Be on guard. One of Satan's desires is for you to start doubting God's Word. He will try his best to shake your foundation. I would suggest that you go to the Lord in prayer about this. I know I will for you.
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Originally Posted by x420psykoticx
How do they know each and every word Jesus/other people say when the disciples aren't around? Even when the disciples are asleep while Jesus is praying in the last days of Jesus' life, how do they know every word of his prayers?
God Almighty is the author of the Bible. He is omniscient and omnipotent, and so by His divine power he can empower anyone to write His Word even without someone physically being at that location. God is not bound by man's physical limitations.
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Originally Posted by x420psykoticx
Secondly, why bother utilizing Moses as a tool? Why couldn't God simply convinced the Egyptian pharoah to let the Jews go? Why love/care for the Jews of all people?
Good question, but I'm afraid that only the Lord Himself can answer it. We do not think like He does. Scripture says His thoughts are much higher than our's. We can only trust that there was a reason for Moses as the tool. What I mean is, why not Moses? You can ask it both ways.
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Originally Posted by x420psykoticx
How can God love everyone when Jews are his "chosen people"? That hints that they are more favorable to God.
Be careful to not equate the Jews of today's phsyical nation of Israel with the Israelite people of the Old Testament (a good portion of this "chosen people" descending out of Abraham is very likely the people of Europe and the United States). God's promise to Abraham was that his descendants would be blessed, and out of them would come a great nation. Abraham was a righteous man, and evidently God found favor with him. It didn't say anyone was more loved than another, or that anyone would not be loved. God instead blesses those who keep His commandments.
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Originally Posted by x420psykoticx
How are all the people in the New World during Jesus' time supposed to know the word of God? God says to go spread the word to everyone, but they didn't even know that the New World existed until nearly a millenia and a half later.
Good question, but it's still possible that the Word existed before Europeans discovered America. However we do know that the peoples of America were pagan, and God might have simply punished them for their wickedness which is what eventually happened.
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:31 AM #20
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Joe's a great guy. I hope to go on a mission trip with him some day.
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:36 AM #21
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Wow, did you read that link yourself? He doesn't say the Exodus never happened.
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