Scientific Debate of Creationism/I.D.

Hero · 12-09-2006, 01:33 PM

Now i see alot of threads leaking spewage that I.D./Creationism has more proof than evolution, or that evolution has more Holes than I.D.
SO here is anyones chance to SCIENTIFICALLY proove I.D. or Creationism. Please don't flame anyone over their views or thoughts...This is a debate thread, not a poop throwing fest.
Let's act like real people and not animals here.

I'll try to keep a chart of who is debating for what side so that people do not get confused.

Science Side
Hero
Tuna

I.D./Creationism
alex06

alex06 · 12-09-2006, 01:39 PM

im on the creationism side

Hero · 12-09-2006, 01:49 PM

OK, Thnx for joining up. I'll start off by asking you for your ideas on the creation.
A brief is fine...nothing really detailed, yet.

tuna · 12-09-2006, 01:56 PM

I'm on the science side.

ID is by definition not science. It in no way uses the scientific method to come to conclusions. The scientific method is grounded in gathering observable, empirical, and measurable evidence, none of which can be done with relation to ID. It was actually found in a federal court to not be science (Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District)

Hero · 12-09-2006, 01:57 PM

Thnx Tuna

Rojo75 · 12-09-2006, 02:05 PM

Just so you know theres no scientific proof that life started spontaneousley. So technically niether can win without faith.

Evolution-- Faith that life was started by a 1/1,000,000,000,......... chance
ID/Creationism- Faith in an omnipontent being .

tuna · 12-09-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rojo75

Just so you know theres no scientific proof that life started spontaneousley. So technically niether can win without faith.

Miller-Urey experiment
Origin of life

There are several plausible, scientifically checkable hypotheses about how life could have started spontaneously from inanimate materials. Saying "god did it" is obviously not science.

StockClassBaller · 12-09-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rojo75

Just so you know theres no scientific proof that life started spontaneousley. So technically niether can win without faith.

Evolution-- Faith that life was started by a 1/1,000,000,000,......... chance
ID/Creationism- Faith in an omnipontent being .

Never mind the fact that biological evolution doesn't have anything to do with how life began.

Rojo75 · 12-09-2006, 02:33 PM

I never said I believe god did it I merely stated that theres a chance it did. Also why does it have to be a scientific argument remember religion is based upon blind faith when you say scientific you shut out their ability to dispute your claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StockClassBaller

Never mind the fact that biological evolution doesn't have anything to do with how life began.

One of the key differences between ID and evolution lies with how life began.

Hero · 12-09-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rojo75

Just so you know theres no scientific proof that life started spontaneousley. So technically niether can win without faith.

Evolution-- Faith that life was started by a 1/1,000,000,000,......... chance
ID/Creationism- Faith in an omnipontent being .

It was posts like this that I hope did not find their ways into this thread.
Your hypothesis that nothing can win without faith is sooooo flawed already.
Please stop.

It is true that no side can win, because neither can prove a starting point. But for someone to automatically stop researching because they don't know the beginning is just ignorant. This is why Scientists labor and are still employeed..We are trying to use science to prove where we came from.

Please grow up and stop with idiotic posts like this in the future

**MVPaintballer** · 12-09-2006, 02:41 PM

You're asking for the impossible... you can not scientifically prove creationism. It's like saying "Here is a hammer, paint a portrait"

Hero · 12-09-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rojo75

I never said I believe god did it I merely stated that theres a chance it did. Also why does it have to be a scientific argument remember religion is based upon blind faith when you say scientific you shut out their ability to dispute your claims.

One of the key differences between ID and evolution lies with how life began.

One of the key differences?
How about almost 100% of everything is different in the two? Other than arguing about the same thing...The claims are completely different.

The reason it is scientific is because I.D. Is trying to work it's way into science/biology books across america. If you want to be a theory in a science book, I would hope that Science had something to do with your claim. So Scientifically give us an Idea of how the world was created.

**MVPaintballer** · 12-09-2006, 02:45 PM

Why don't you scientifically PROVE evolution... win a nobel prize.

Hero · 12-09-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVPaintballer

You're asking for the impossible... you can not scientifically prove creationism. It's like saying "Here is a hammer, paint a portrait"

Not Impossible...If it is impossible, why is it trying to be a textbook theory? And the hammer--->portrait, some art student would claim they could

Rojo75 · 12-09-2006, 02:45 PM

Prove to me that life began in a primordial soup without outside help.

Hero · 12-09-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVPaintballer

Why don't you scientifically PROVE evolution... win a nobel prize.

SO there is NO scientific evidence to support Evolution?
I'm not asking scientific evidence that prooves I.D., just scientific proof to support it.

**MVPaintballer** · 12-09-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero

Not Impossible...If it is impossible, why is it trying to be a textbook theory? And the hammer--->portrait, some art student would claim they could

Not, it's impossible to scientifically prove creationism, and no one sane is claiming that it is. And some scientists would say they could prove evolution/creationism... doesn't mean they could.

**MVPaintballer** · 12-09-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero

SO there is NO scientific evidence to support Evolution?
I'm not asking scientific evidence that prooves I.D., just scientific proof to support it.

No, you're twisting my words, there is a lot of evidence for evolution, there are also a lot of missings parts in it, and anyone knowledgable of the subject would agree. I agreed it was flawed when I was an evolutionist.

Both come down to faith. You believe in God that has no physical evidence of existance, or you believe in the picofraction chance of evolution. Occurring from scratch. honestly, it's like walking into the kitchen and seeing a cake made on it's own. In fact, I would expect that before the evolution of a human.

Hero · 12-09-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVPaintballer

No, you're twisting my words, there is a lot of evidence for evolution, there are also a lot of missings parts in it, and anyone knowledgable of the subject would agree. I agreed it was flawed when I was an evolutionist.

Both come down to faith. You believe in God that has no physical evidence of existance, or you believe in the picofraction chance of evolution. Occurring from scratch. honestly, it's like walking into the kitchen and seeing a cake made on it's own. In fact, I would expect that before the evolution of a human.

Please Understand that I am not attacking you religion basis here.
Your Dragging this out to be something it is not. Please read a definition of Intelligent Design. "They say that intelligent design is a scientific theory that stands on equal footing with, or is superior to, current scientific theories regarding the evolution and origin of life". People believe this despite what YOU think. Now This is my reason behind the thread. IF Creationism/I.D. Believes that it is a scientific theory...then Please explain how.
I'm asking for a person that Believes in I.D., not someone that believes in a form of Theistic Evolution or does not believe the terms that I.d. fits into.

**MVPaintballer** · 12-09-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero

Please Understand that I am not attacking you religion basis here.
Your Dragging this out to be something it is not. Please read a definition of Intelligent Design. "They say that intelligent design is a scientific theory that stands on equal footing with, or is superior to, current scientific theories regarding the evolution and origin of life". People believe this despite what YOU think. Now This is my reason behind the thread. IF Creationism/I.D. Believes that it is a scientific theory...then Please explain how.
I'm asking for a person that Believes in I.D., not someone that believes in a form of Theistic Evolution or does not believe the terms that I.d. fits into.

You're grouping Creationism with I.D. and it's completely different. I'm talking about Creation.

You won't find scientific evidence for the existance of an intelligent designer, you will however find lack of evidence of evolution, leading to the "conclusion" that there was an intelligent mechanism behind evolution.

Hero · 12-09-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVPaintballer

You're grouping Creationism with I.D. and it's completely different. I'm talking about Creation.

You won't find scientific evidence for the existance of an intelligent designer, you will however find lack of evidence of evolution, leading to the "conclusion" that there was an intelligent mechanism behind evolution.

"However, "creationism" in common usage typically connotes a religious, political, and social campaign—for instance, in education—to assert the dominance or widespread acceptance of a spiritual view of nature and of humanity's place in it."
Sound similar to me...It seems the only difference between I.D. and Creationism is that Creationism at least has the balls to say they are faith based. Whereas I.D. Claims it was a Supreme Being.
They are Not Completly different.

So The complete lacking of evidence of Creationism/ID's Creator or the "up til now" point is supremely outweighed by the holes in evolution?
SO because Evolution has yet to press down an exact Proof to the creation of the universe, Creation wins?