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Old 12-09-2006, 01:28 AM #22
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Evolution is fact.
its not fact, its theory
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Old 12-09-2006, 09:46 AM #23
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But after extensive testing over an extended period when does it cease to be a theory and become a fact? Many of the world's leading scientists and intellectuals regard evolution to be scientific truth. That some form of evolution took place is hard to deny.
Do you know how many holes and unanswered questions there are in the theory of evolution? I can't believe people are actually taking this to be fact. It is a theory
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Old 12-09-2006, 10:54 AM #24
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Scientifically, they won't make it a fact right now due to the probability of what it would take to happen. The complexity of it makes it virtually impossible by mathmatical means. The chances of it happening are about the same as if you would take a bunch of metal, throw it in a box, shake the box, and make a watch out of it. Could it happen? In theory. But the chances are extremely slim to put it lightly.
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Old 12-09-2006, 12:49 PM #25
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^^^That's completely wrong. You're not talking about generic evolution, you're talking about origins, which is a completely different question. The chances that humans evolved from apes is way more secure than that, I'd put the probability near 100%.

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Old 12-09-2006, 01:33 PM #26
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Scientifically, they won't make it a fact right now due to the probability of what it would take to happen. The complexity of it makes it virtually impossible by mathmatical means. The chances of it happening are about the same as if you would take a bunch of metal, throw it in a box, shake the box, and make a watch out of it. Could it happen? In theory. But the chances are extremely slim to put it lightly.
Look up "endogenous retroviruses."

Humans and chimps have dozens in common. The chance of that happnening WITHOUT any sort of common ancestry is mathematically more unlikely than the probabilities involved in evolution.
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Old 12-09-2006, 01:49 PM #27
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I just stumbled onto this forum and i am going to try and correct some problems in this thread.


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Originally Posted by Mps2216 View Post
I am both an atheist and a rationalist. However, even I realize evolution is a theory. Gravity is a theory. Relativity is a theory. They have ample empirical evidence, however they are not law/fact.
Actually, yes and No.
Gravity is both theory and law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_...al_gravitation
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Old 12-09-2006, 02:04 PM #28
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Do you know how many holes and unanswered questions there are in the theory of evolution? I can't believe people are actually taking this to be fact. It is a theory
You realize that humans share 99% of their genes with chimps? How is it we can be so similar yet completely opposite? Evolution has some unanswered questions but it is far more reliable than the Bible.
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Old 12-09-2006, 02:10 PM #29
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Yes Evolution is a Theory. But Creation is Hypothesis(my bad)

LEts be honest...Scientifically Evolution>Creation
More holes exist In creation then evolution when you look at it scientifically.

Last edited by Hero : 12-09-2006 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 12-09-2006, 02:12 PM #30
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Yes Evolution is a Theory. But Creation is a Theory as well...

LEts be honest...Scientifically Evolution>Creation
More holes exist In creation then evolution when you look at it scientifically.
Creation is not a theory. A theory is something that can be tested, Intelligent Design is simply an hypothesis. Intelligent Design is not even recognized as a science let alone a theory.
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Old 12-09-2006, 02:16 PM #31
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Touche...Sorry I am jumping between this and facebook debates

The beautiful part about Intelligent Design is the ability to weasle out. If you don't have an answer...God did it. Unfortunetly in science "God did it" just doesn't cut it
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:30 PM #32
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Quote:
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Unfortunetly in science "God did it" just doesn't cut it
No, they tend to say "Nature designed..." or "It just happens..."
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:32 PM #33
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No, they tend to say "Nature designed..." or "It just happens..."
we should stick to one thread, you and me.

Sad thing is they usually use this thing called evidence to back their claims...Research!
"it just happened"? used in evolution? I'm just curious for a link to that.
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:34 PM #34
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Quote:
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we should stick to one thread, you and me.

Sad thing is they usually use this thing called evidence to back their claims...Research!
"it just happened"? used in evolution? I'm just curious for a link to that.
You won't find that on a link, but go to a college and sit in for a couple biochemistry or cytology classes.
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:35 PM #35
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Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
You won't find that on a link, but go to a college and sit in for a couple biochemistry or cytology classes.
Done that.
I'm just hoping your claims could be backed up with a link to somewhere i can read this. So i have a chance to explain it.
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:42 PM #36
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Evolution is fact. Intelligent Design is simply religion masquerading as a science. It is only a hypothesis, not a theory.
lol.

That's so far from the truth.

Asbestos:
"oh don't worry, it's harmless..."
(50 years later)
"damn it, I have cancer".

What I'm trying to say, is science changes - the Bible doesn't. Years and years of science changing and trying to challenge a thousand year old book, and they still haven't proved it wrong. Science is just guesses from a few people who have studied an extra 10 years, and you're willing to bet your after life on them? Now I'm not saying science is wrong or anything, but when it comes to how we came and where we will be in the future, their guess is as good as anyone's - they just took more time researching it. You cannot prove the Bible is wrong, and you cannot prove science is wrong, so why bother arguing with eachother?

Last edited by paintballonaim : 12-09-2006 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:50 PM #37
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What I'm trying to say, is science changes - the Bible doesn't. Years and years of science changing and trying to challenge a thousand year old book, and they still haven't proved it wrong. Science is just guesses from a few people who have studied an extra 10 years, and you're willing to bet your after life on them? Now I'm not saying science is wrong or anything, but when it comes to how we came and where we will be in the future, their guess is as good as anyone's - they just took more time researching it. You cannot prove the Bible is wrong, and you cannot prove science is wrong, so why bother arguing with eachother?
The Bible doesn't change...Your right. So Stone children who do not listen, sell your daughter into slavery, Disgrace men with long hair, and Don't approach a woman on her period.

Whats to prove wrong in a book? Can you prove "Paradise Lost" wrong? Or perhaps Conrad's "Heart of Darkness"? Now try and prove Osmosis wrong.

WE don't have to prove the bible wrong, until you take it literally. If you take it literally there is many problems with it.
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Old 12-09-2006, 05:28 PM #38
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paintballonaim- That's exactly the point, Science is about testing hypothesis, and then gaining knowledge about the universe. Science changes to fit reality, and what we know.

Religion on the other hand is a static entity, which refuses to change to fit observable evidence. (Not that it doesn't change when it will benefit directly, for example making christmas coincide with pagan holidays, extensive editing of the bible to fit whims of the Vatican, etc.)

And once more for the record: Abiogenesis =/= Evolution
Evolution is an observable phenomenon
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:47 PM #39
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Originally Posted by paintballonaim View Post
lol.

That's so far from the truth.

Asbestos:
"oh don't worry, it's harmless..."
(50 years later)
"damn it, I have cancer".

What I'm trying to say, is science changes - the Bible doesn't. Years and years of science changing and trying to challenge a thousand year old book, and they still haven't proved it wrong. Science is just guesses from a few people who have studied an extra 10 years, and you're willing to bet your after life on them? Now I'm not saying science is wrong or anything, but when it comes to how we came and where we will be in the future, their guess is as good as anyone's - they just took more time researching it. You cannot prove the Bible is wrong, and you cannot prove science is wrong, so why bother arguing with eachother?

You can prove science wrong, it happens all the time.
Our scientific knoledge as humans is refined, revised, and expanded over time as we learn more and more. Old theories are expanded upon and improved as new ideas are tested.

Proving the bible wrong is somewhat counter-productive because it is filled with events that defy science, but such events are accepted by christians as miracles.
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Old 12-09-2006, 11:03 PM #40
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Originally Posted by paintballonaim View Post
lol.

That's so far from the truth.

Asbestos:
"oh don't worry, it's harmless..."
(50 years later)
"damn it, I have cancer".

What I'm trying to say, is science changes - the Bible doesn't. Years and years of science changing and trying to challenge a thousand year old book, and they still haven't proved it wrong. Science is just guesses from a few people who have studied an extra 10 years, and you're willing to bet your after life on them? Now I'm not saying science is wrong or anything, but when it comes to how we came and where we will be in the future, their guess is as good as anyone's - they just took more time researching it. You cannot prove the Bible is wrong, and you cannot prove science is wrong, so why bother arguing with eachother?
You scold me for risking my after life by agreeing with the lifelong work of professional scientists yet you see nothing wrong with believing unnamed writers and a book written two thousand years ago.

Hypocrisy?
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Old 12-09-2006, 11:14 PM #41
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Originally Posted by paintballonaim View Post
lol.

That's so far from the truth.

Asbestos:
"oh don't worry, it's harmless..."
(50 years later)
"damn it, I have cancer".

What I'm trying to say, is science changes - the Bible doesn't. Years and years of science changing and trying to challenge a thousand year old book, and they still haven't proved it wrong. Science is just guesses from a few people who have studied an extra 10 years, and you're willing to bet your after life on them? Now I'm not saying science is wrong or anything, but when it comes to how we came and where we will be in the future, their guess is as good as anyone's - they just took more time researching it. You cannot prove the Bible is wrong, and you cannot prove science is wrong, so why bother arguing with eachother?
That's the problem, the Bible doesn't change. So once you've been proven wrong in one major aspect, you've lost the whole game. That's the great thing about science, it can change. That's a good thing. Science isn't just guesses. It's empirical evidence. It has real support. That's more than Christianity will ever be able to say. And we're not betting our life on science, we're supporting something that, from a rationalist standpoint, is alot more logical. See, we as atheists, aren't scared. I assume that's what you meant by betting your life on science, because if were wrong, we'll go to hell. However, we know there isn't a hell, so there's no need to worry. Really consider what you've put your faith in. Does it really make sense to you? Does it really seem logical? Read the Bible again. I think you might see what I mean.

And you can most certainly prove the Bible wrong. That is until Christians start asserting the Bible is just a massive metaphor. If science can't disprove the legitimacy of the Bible, why does the Catholic church continuously denounce and accept various scientific discoveries as contemporary science evolves and develops? Such as when I refer to Genesis when God created man out of dust. Either science disproves this statement, or Christians are forced to take a different standpoint. If you don't already see it coming, look now. Christianity is on the decline. Science can be proven wrong, I agree. But that's not a loss, that's a gain. That's one less variable to consider.
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Old 12-09-2006, 11:51 PM #42
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You can prove science wrong, it happens all the time.
Our scientific knoledge as humans is refined, revised, and expanded over time as we learn more and more. Old theories are expanded upon and improved as new ideas are tested.

Proving the bible wrong is somewhat counter-productive because it is filled with events that defy science, but such events are accepted by christians as miracles.
man, i want to post in this thread... but its hard to say anything after FSM has spoken.
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