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Old 12-09-2006, 10:26 PM #22
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Why do you need to feel strongly one way or another about a god? There are people all over the world who live perfectly normal lives with no feelings whatsoever about a higher power. Why do you need god, or a firm belief that there isn't one to have a plan in life? That doesn't come into play until after you die. I don't think about it and I don't worry about it. I live my life for me and my family. I have the same goals and ambitions as anyone else.

Life is actually much easier as an agnostic than it is being strongly religious or strongly athiest.
I can't speak for theists, but as an atheist, life isn't about atheism. In fact it has the exact opposite effect. I accept that a god is not a part of anything, and life takes its course from there. Sure, I'm interested in science. Sure, I'm interested in cosmology. But that's because of my personal interests, not because I'm necessarily an atheist. Essentially atheism is a a result of my personal propensity for science. Not vice versa. Many atheists could care less how the universe arose, however they have eliminated the possibility of a deity.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:37 PM #23
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I dont see being agnostic as being uncertain of God. I am agnostic, but only because I dont believe that there should be a select set of rules that one must follow to be faithful. I believe that there was a Jesus, but the idea that Jesus was born of a virgin seems a little far-fetched. The fact that Jesus was even born on December 25th is hard to believe. It would have been next to impossible for any of the travelers to survive that trip in the dead of winter, let alone a newborn child. Basically, I have my criticisms for every religion, and think that they are all crap. A lot of the stories told were made up in order to basically market the religion. But I do believe in a higher diety, and in fact do believe in the same god as is worshipped in the Christian religions, but share the same ideas as Judaism in that Jesus was not a prophetic being.

Basically, I dont see being Agnostic as not being certain, I just see it as not following a certain religion to show faith, but rather living your faith through personal practices.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:42 PM #24
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Is it unnerving living in the gray area as you say? To me, no. Just filled with alot of thought.
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Old 12-11-2006, 03:52 PM #25
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I dont see being agnostic as being uncertain of God. I am agnostic, but only because I dont believe that there should be a select set of rules that one must follow to be faithful. I believe that there was a Jesus, but the idea that Jesus was born of a virgin seems a little far-fetched. The fact that Jesus was even born on December 25th is hard to believe. It would have been next to impossible for any of the travelers to survive that trip in the dead of winter, let alone a newborn child. Basically, I have my criticisms for every religion, and think that they are all crap. A lot of the stories told were made up in order to basically market the religion. But I do believe in a higher diety, and in fact do believe in the same god as is worshipped in the Christian religions, but share the same ideas as Judaism in that Jesus was not a prophetic being.

Basically, I dont see being Agnostic as not being certain, I just see it as not following a certain religion to show faith, but rather living your faith through personal practices.
Your beliefs are generally classified under deism, not agnosticism.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:34 PM #26
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Originally Posted by Mps2216 View Post
Your beliefs are generally classified under deism, not agnosticism.
I know, but im very borderline in that I still believe in many of the Christian ideals, and the Christian god (christian refering to all of Christianity, that is Catholicism, Orthodox, Protestant and the like). But my practices are not adherent to any of the forementioned religions, nor any religion to date. I share a lot of deist qualities, agnostic qualities, theist qualities....I guess to be honest, I have absolutly no clue what I am...looks like I have some thinking to do.

Edit: Alright, well after further study, I guess you are right. Deist probably is the best term for my beliefs. Thank you for clearing that up.
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Last edited by Mr. Bush : 12-11-2006 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:37 PM #27
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I know, but im very borderline in that I still believe in many of the Christian ideals, and the Christian god (christian refering to all of Christianity, that is Catholicism, Orthodox, Protestant and the like). But my practices are not adherent to any of the forementioned religions, nor any religion to date. I share a lot of deist qualities, agnostic qualities, theist qualities....I guess to be honest, I have absolutly no clue what I am...looks like I have some thinking to do.
Not agnostic, bud...lol.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:39 PM #28
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I know, but im very borderline in that I still believe in many of the Christian ideals, and the Christian god (christian refering to all of Christianity, that is Catholicism, Orthodox, Protestant and the like). But my practices are not adherent to any of the forementioned religions, nor any religion to date. I share a lot of deist qualities, agnostic qualities, theist qualities....I guess to be honest, I have absolutly no clue what I am...looks like I have some thinking to do.
I don't see how you believe in the Christian god if you don't believe in Jesus. Christians believe god is three parts, one of them being the "son" or "Jesus".
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:43 PM #29
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I don't see how you believe in the Christian god if you don't believe in Jesus. Christians believe god is three parts, one of them being the "son" or "Jesus".
We like to call it Judaism.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:46 PM #30
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We like to call it Judaism.
Judaism requires a lot more than believing in a singular higher being. I guess I could also call it Islam or Zoroastrianism.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:48 PM #31
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Judaism requires a lot more than believing in a singular higher being. I guess I could also call it Islam or Zoroastrianism.
Your comment was "How can you believe in the Christian God, and not believe in Jesus". Jews believe in the same god as Christians, however they do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. You asked, I answered.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:01 PM #32
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Atheists do not believe in a God while Christians do. Agnostics are not sure. My question is, how do agnostics live with such a philosophy? Although I believe Christians to be wrong they at least have a plan for life. Atheists find meaning in the denial of God. Agnostics have neither. Is it not unnerving to live your life in the gray area? To me, it is necessary to choose a way to live rather than being uncertain.

Just want some feedback.
How can I live as an agnostic? Because I feel religions (such as Christianity as you mentioned) are nothing more than collections of fictious stories used to control, explain, and to satisfy people who can't comprehend anything without a definate beginning and end.

With this point of view, it is very easy to live as an agnostic.

In my mind, for every point supporting each religion there is a counterpoint, and all these points and counterpoints cancel out leaving only apathy.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:01 PM #33
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Your comment was "How can you believe in the Christian God, and not believe in Jesus". Jews believe in the same god as Christians, however they do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. You asked, I answered.

And I guess you could say every theist religion believes in the same god, but with a different perspective. I wouldn't call the Christian god the Jewish god, if one god is whole and the other is sliced in three, but the "founders" of christianity obviously used Jewish dogma as a foundation for the new idea of god. Then again, you could say the same about Islam building on Christianity and Judaism, so I guess we could say that Muslims believe in the Christian god without having Jesus as part of the godhead. I am just saying being monotheistic does not equal being a religious Jew.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:32 PM #34
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And I guess you could say every theist religion believes in the same god, but with a different perspective. I wouldn't call the Christian god the Jewish god, if one god is whole and the other is sliced in three, but the "founders" of christianity obviously used Jewish dogma as a foundation for the new idea of god. Then again, you could say the same about Islam building on Christianity and Judaism, so I guess we could say that Muslims believe in the Christian god without having Jesus as part of the godhead. I am just saying being monotheistic does not equal being a religious Jew.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:50 PM #35
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Your comment was "How can you believe in the Christian God, and not believe in Jesus". Jews believe in the same god as Christians, however they do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. You asked, I answered.
You should read the book... Actually I can't think of the exact name... It is somewhat like "Same God?: Is the God of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity the Same?"

I'd say, they are not.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:56 PM #36
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Atheists do not believe in a God while Christians do. Agnostics are not sure. My question is, how do agnostics live with such a philosophy? Although I believe Christians to be wrong they at least have a plan for life. Atheists find meaning in the denial of God. Agnostics have neither. Is it not unnerving to live your life in the gray area? To me, it is necessary to choose a way to live rather than being uncertain.

Just want some feedback.
I'm not an agnostic, persay, but I think in the same fashion. Agnostics don't acknowledge the fact that there is or isn't a god, but I believe in "a" god, just not "the" god.

I personally believe that there is no way of telling if any religion is right or wrong. The sheer concept of a god is just too large for the human mind to grasp, so there is no way of telling, and I believe that every religion is just a large misinterpretation.

Do I have any way of backing this up? No. That is just what I believe. I am content with thinking that god will decide what to do with me, but I see no set of standards, other then the ones I set for myself.

I even believe that Atheism is an accepted view. The concept of god is ludicrous, and Atheism is the most logical path. I think a god would realize this and see that with the millions of religions out there, most being very, very out there, that being an atheist is just one way of looking at it.

So I don't really think agnosticism is the "gray area", but more of a realization that religions are not any more right than another, so there is no reason in following a path because you feel the need to. So you just go with the flow and see things as they come, because you can't tell what happens until you die.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:03 PM #37
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I think you would be considered to be an agnostic theist.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:34 PM #38
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Agnostics believe in God, just not any organized religion.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:36 PM #39
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Agnostics believe in God, just not any organized religion.
You're thinking Deism.

And I like the picture of Kierkegaard in your avvy Mps2216.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:53 PM #40
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You're thinking Deism.

And I like the picture of Kierkegaard in your avvy Mps2216.
Existentialism is cool. However, I'm not quite sure how much I agree with the paramount of subjectivity and absence of rationalism. I think I will conceive a treatise that reconciles subjectivity and objectivity, existentialism and rationalism, Kierkegaard and Descartes, much like epistemology attempts to do with truth and belief.

Look for this treatise to be published by the Royal Society in the near future.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:12 AM #41
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I don't see how you believe in the Christian god if you don't believe in Jesus. Christians believe god is three parts, one of them being the "son" or "Jesus".
And I believe in parts of the Christian diety. Just because I dont think Jesus was miracle worker he is depicted out to be doesnt mean I cant follow other aspects and ideas of the Christian faith.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:04 AM #42
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Existentialism is cool. However, I'm not quite sure how much I agree with the paramount of subjectivity and absence of rationalism. I think I will conceive a treatise that reconciles subjectivity and objectivity, existentialism and rationalism, Kierkegaard and Descartes, much like epistemology attempts to do with truth and belief.

Look for this treatise to be published by the Royal Society in the near future.
Feel free to share your work with me.

And yes, existentialism is very cool. Its one of my favorite branches of philosophy. Kierkegaard, Sartre, Dostoevsky, and Camus are very interesting existentialist thinkers.
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