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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the Bible
Yes 94 43.32%
No 107 49.31%
Unsure 16 7.37%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:40 PM #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chae View Post
Other than the fact the Gilgamesh predates your bible by thousands of years. And there is actual evidence the Gilgamesh story actually happened from the strata records. Plus the actual story was found on Cuneform tablets, which is the earliest known writing to man.

Face it, the christians stole the story to relate a tale that sinning against ones fellow man will result in catastrophy. They heard the story and added to it to fit their times and events. The STOLE the story.
sorry, not going to face your presentation of fact. just because a writing predates another does not make it more accurate or stolen. and the whole geological column "fact" is again another issue. dating strata based on index fossils that are dated based on the strata is just ridiculous, but for some reason is accepted, because it is taught as fact.

as to your contradictions do you know what a contradiction is? if it is a, then it cannot be not a and a at the same time. who went to the tomb is not a contradiction, just several accounts of the same thing. this is a common fallacy for those that believe in the supposed Biblical contradictions. just because one author gives certain details, doesn't mean the others presenting the same story will be the same. they all mention Mary Magdalene. and then some others in some of the other references. if one said and NOT Mary Magdalene, then that would be considered a contradiction. but it does not and as such, this is not a contradiction.

These are common "contradictions" that are all over the internet, and I assume you cut/pasted these "samples", so I will do the same in response to this one, but at least I am saying that I am cutting and pasteing -
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What did Jesus mean when He said, "I and my Father are one."? The questioner has read into the Scripture that Jesus said He was equal to the Father in regards to their authority. Such is not the case. In the very text, Jesus declares that the Father "...is greater than all..." (10:29) Throughout His ministry, Jesus affirmed that the Father was greater than He. In John 5:19, Jesus states, "...I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." Later in the same text, He says, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just: because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30).

How then are the Christ and the Father "one"? In John 17:11, Jesus prays for His disciples with these words, "...that they may be one, as we are one." Again, in the same chapter at verses 22-23, Jesus says, "...that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one..." This same word, "one" is used in Galatians 2:28, where the apostle Paul says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." How are they one? In nature. Just as Jews, Greeks, slaves, free, men and women are all one in nature --- Christian --- so the Father and Son are one in nature --- God. That does not mean they are equal in their exercise of authority. Some in the church were placed in positions of greater responsibility and authority (ie. apostles, prophets, elders, teachers), however, they are still "...one in Christ Jesus" with the rest. The Father is greater than the Son in authority, but they are equal in nature -- both are deity.

There is no contradiction.
have you read the Bible, and do you have any contradictions that YOU have found, or are you just reading them from someone elses presentation or website?
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:43 PM #107
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Originally Posted by chae View Post
You are joking right?

Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Just a few examples of the countless contradictions in the bible. If any part of the bible is wrong it then relates to the entire book being wrong. The bible is nothing more than a group of stories put together by man. There are many, many books that were omitted from the book that should have been included. Why were they omitted? Because they did not fit the agenda of those putting the bible together.
Learn about what you post before you post it. You haven't given contradictions. Do any of those 3 contradict at the empty tomb? No. Some say more names than others, but none actually contradict. There's different levels of info. Learn about the writers and their styles before you try to use that "contradiction."

As far as your John verses, gotta look at them in the context they are written in. John 10:30 means that Christ and God are united. John 14:28 refers to Jesus' current condition. Once again, no contradiction.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:44 PM #108
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
sorry, not going to face your presentation of fact. just because a writing predates another does not make it more accurate or stolen. and the whole geological column "fact" is again another issue. dating strata based on index fossils that are dated based on the strata is just ridiculous, but for some reason is accepted, because it is taught as fact.

as to your contradictions do you know what a contradiction is? if it is a, then it cannot be not a and a at the same time. who went to the tomb is not a contradiction, just several accounts of the same thing. this is a common fallacy for those that believe in the supposed Biblical contradictions. just because one author gives certain details, doesn't mean the others presenting the same story will be the same. they all mention Mary Magdalene. and then some others in some of the other references. if one said and NOT Mary Magdalene, then that would be considered a contradiction. but it does not and as such, this is not a contradiction.

These are common "contradictions" that are all over the internet, and I assume you cut/pasted these "samples", so I will do the same in response to this one, but at least I am saying that I am cutting and pasteing - have you read the Bible, and do you have any contradictions that YOU have found, or are you just reading them from someone elses presentation or website?

So instead of presenting your "facts" you attempt to attack the accepted scientific basis of using strata, which is easy to use cause we know the rates strata is added. This is a tactic used by christians all of the time. Though it never works.

I actually went to a private school so I am versed well enough in the fable of the bible. Now when you are actually ready to discuss facts you can come back to the thread.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:46 PM #109
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Originally Posted by Aggressive Bill View Post
Learn about what you post before you post it. You haven't given contradictions. Do any of those 3 contradict at the empty tomb? No. Some say more names than others, but none actually contradict. There's different levels of info. Learn about the writers and their styles before you try to use that "contradiction."

As far as your John verses, gotta look at them in the context they are written in. John 10:30 means that Christ and God are united. John 14:28 refers to Jesus' current condition. Once again, no contradiction.
No contradiction? LOL

The bible was inspired by god, his words given to man. If these words are wrong it points to your god, or jesus, being wrong. Thus making the text fallible. You see, when dealing with fact based evidence the bible fails. That is why your religion is called FAITH.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:48 PM #110
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You are the only one who said it was wrong. So far you haven't given anything that proves it false. You're looking so hard that you are trying to make more out of something than what's really there.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:50 PM #111
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So I guess the people allegedly at the tomb being wrong would not weigh on any of the other stories being wrong either.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:54 PM #112
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So instead of presenting your "facts" you attempt to attack the accepted scientific basis of using strata, which is easy to use cause we know the rates strata is added. This is a tactic used by christians all of the time. Though it never works.
and so the story goes and the typical response. I have a different opinion, so I am wrong because I am Christian.
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I actually went to a private school so I am versed well enough in the fable of the bible. Now when you are actually ready to discuss facts you can come back to the thread.
"versed" I didn't ask if you were versed, i asked if you have read the Bible, and could come up with a contradiction on your own. You may believe the Bible is a fable. fine, I will agree to disagree with you, but that doesn't keep me from believing that it is NOT a fable.

and when you are ready to discuss an issue, I am ready to as well. so far, you have been presenting your "facts" and not discussing much because I disagree with those facts.

the strata rates are another topic and discussion, this is about the Bible. I believe in the Bible, and you don't. I don't believe in the geological column, and you do. You have your faith and I have my faith.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:57 PM #113
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Have you ever been on a plane? When you take your trip, you don't usually take in account of every name of each person on the plane. You usually take in account yourself. Others might mention a few more people and yourself. Someone not close to you may not even mention you at all. Does that mean that, because not everyone is mentioned every time, they didn't go on the plane as well? No. It just means they weren't mentioned each time. Same thing with this.
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:40 PM #114
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also some of the date arguments might have to take it up with atomic half lives and a few isotopes
for those who seem to have missed it, i was talking about isotope dating, heres an interesting read

also

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Despite the traditional wording used in English texts of Exodus, the 'Red Sea' is not actually referred to in the Hebrew text. The Hebrew refers to 'Yam suph', Sea of Reeds or Reed Sea, which was a significantly smaller, marshy body of swampwater to the north of the Red Sea. This suggests a less traumatic event than is traditionally envisioned. If the Jewish people were chased through the Sea of Reeds, the Egyptians could have either lost track of them through the swamp or, their chariots or horses could have been bogged down in the mud.
http://www.crivoice.org/yamsuph.html
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:03 PM #115
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I believe some fact in the bible are somewhat true. The life of Jesus, but I also believed as it was passed down(they didnt have books) it was added to by extremest. I see the bible kinda like a rumor, the more things get passed around the more unfactual it becomes. Thats exactly how I believe the bible is.

What started out as the "life of jesus" slowly turned into what we have now called "Gods word". Which is now the bible in which many people live by.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:26 PM #116
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No we don't.

What most people refer to as the original texts are really translated copies of the original texts. The original New Testament texts are long gone.

Some people THINK that we have unchanged copies of the old testament in the original language, but that really depends on whether or not you trust the people who did the copying.
Dead sea scrolls?
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:31 PM #117
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Dead sea scrolls?
The dead sea scrolls are not the originals. But there were more books found in the caves with the scrolls that have never been added to the bible.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:43 PM #118
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Humans are trying to fully explan the mind of God who is soo far above us we could never completly understand him.
It is with that statement that prevents me from believing in any specific God.

How do humans know what Gods wishes are? They don't. God is outside of the frame of the human mind. There is no reason to try and understand God because if it's a higher being that is beyond our control, what says that anyone is right?

No religion is any more right than another, because the concept of God is so large, that no human can understand it.

The Bible contains a lot of things that are good, regardless of religion though. But it preaches morality, like most religions anyway.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:49 PM #119
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Everyone should check out this site: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm it really is interesting and should influence some people about the bible.
Honestly that site is really interesting.

I am unsure, because I don't believe in a large number of the bible stories, but I believe in their symbolism, and encourage us to live our lives in a better way.
But any who has actually read large portions of the bible, must agree that it is a very interesting read
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:58 PM #120
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I checked out a bit of that site. No offense, but their arguments are really poor. Whoever wrote that was trying to pick at things that are childish. If you have any grasp on language, you can see past his lil comments. I've seen more intelligent debates on ST than on that site.

Last edited by Aggressive Bill : 12-13-2006 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:01 PM #121
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No. Way to many contradictions. Genesis is, of course, completely false, Exodus has been disproven (earthquake/volcanic eruption near Santorini), The Gospels are easily argued against, and Revelation was just a man getting high in a cave.


Yeah it really is a crock of ****. I mean Noah’s ark is impossible. Wooden ships cant be that big even when reinforced with steel. It’s a well-known fact they will break in half even with steal. Too much weight.


All the stories are for moral teachings, if you take them literally you are so incredibly incompetent and you obviously like to take a path of mental laziness.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:04 PM #122
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Yes I believe the Bible to be true. I was in the same mind frame as alot of you, trying to keep myself as far from God as I could. My life was sin, and sin was my life. Then God gave me an oppturnity to know he was real. The change in my heart was a complete 180, a turn around. While I am far from sinless, it is not the desire of my heart to live as I once had.You can try to point out mistakes in the Bible But look how many times science changes its mind on their version of truth. Humans are trying to fully explan the mind of God who is soo far above us we could never completly understand him.
This **** always makes me think "Oh my fake this is rediculous, if you are going to say 'I made a big 180' why don't you tell why or how or anything, just saying it without evidence is like... well believing in God"
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:07 PM #123
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Those who claim it is full of contradictions have most likely never read it entirely. The bible does not contradict itself. Many of the claims made against the bible, like the beating slaves above, are taken out of context, or the words have been twisted and "interpreted" to come to such a conclusion. The bible does not contradict itself, and if anyone has read the bible entirely, in context, feel free to point out any contradiction.
What you don't understand is the bible, the Oh my fake holiest of holy books, has been changed an incredible amount of times by the church and the original texts were lost hundreds of years before the bible was being written in any numerous quantities.


Its changed so many times its not even the same thing anyways.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:07 PM #124
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I do not believe that the bible is the truth.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:25 PM #125
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Yeah it really is a crock of ****. I mean Noah’s ark is impossible. Wooden ships cant be that big even when reinforced with steel. It’s a well-known fact they will break in half even with steal. Too much weight.

All the stories are for moral teachings, if you take them literally you are so incredibly incompetent and you obviously like to take a path of mental laziness.
In your opinion of course. It is a well known fact, by the way, that wooden ships CAN be built in such a way as to not have the stress you are describing in simple boats.

and thank you (sarcasm) for the personal interjection of name calling and degradation. If you would not be so incredibly lazy by believing what you are told about something and actually study it for yourself, you might not be incompetent yourself.

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This **** always makes me think "Oh my fake this is rediculous, if you are going to say 'I made a big 180' why don't you tell why or how or anything, just saying it without evidence is like... well believing in God"
ridiculous to you. I often wonder what kind of person it is that thinks so little of them self that they feel they must ridicule and berate someone else's life-changing decisions (even if they don't' agree with it).

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What you don't understand is the bible, the Oh my fake holiest of holy books, has been changed an incredible amount of times by the church and the original texts were lost hundreds of years before the bible was being written in any numerous quantities.

Its changed so many times its not even the same thing anyways.
no, what YOU don't understand is the Bible. you that think you know so much about this book, and berate and belittle it without even an inkling of comprehension of what it consists of, it's history and how it came to be.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:01 PM #126
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come on, its not even about building the boat, how about the 1+ million species (X2 for breeding, X* for genetic variance to stop self destruction?) it just cant be taken seriously - and the proper redistribution of the species afterwards for acceptable climate and perfect ecological balance?!?!?

again, archeological evidence (and isotope dating) is pointing towards a Sumerian king named Ziusudra (now known as Noah) who rode a commercial barge with animals/grains down the Euphrates River to the gulf during a flood and had the boat stuck on some high ground - another exaggeration gone wild
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