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Old 12-10-2006, 11:05 PM #1
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Thewayofthemaster.com -literalists

wow www.thewayofthemaster.com is made up of hardcore literalists. I suggest you take the ultimate test they have, that basically asks you if you have lived a good life by following the ten commandments. No matter what you say, it says you are going to hell. Even if you say you have obeyed all the ten commandments, it calls you a liar, and says you will go to hell for lying. The whole site to me is just weird.
Which leads me to the fact that I really do not agree with the literalists of all parts of the Christian faith. It just seems so close minded. Allot of literalists are not even aware of all the things they believe. In my opinion the historical critical method is correct because it agrees with how times have changed. It seems good that the Historical critical method actually agrees that there are historical errors in the bible, but no spiritual and the messages are true. I have many more opinions on the matter of both the way of the master, and literalist method Vs. Historical critical method. Any opinions on either?
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:47 PM #2
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I'm surprised no one check out wayofthemaster. the side is weird and seems like it would attract some attention.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:24 AM #3
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The site is definitely not weird. Those two gentlemen are Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron (the famous actor) - to which I've had the privilege of listening to their speeches in person. In fact I have one of Ray's books right next to me.

I took the test, and they're right on with Biblical truth. If you fail even one commandment, then you're a sinner, which is punishable by death. If you say that you haven't sinned, then you are certainly lying not only to yourself but also to God since every man has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). Only the saving grace of the Savior's death and resurrection from the dead can save us from our sin.

When you talk about historical errors, can you point them out with complete certainty? I know you won't be able to since God's Word is infallible, but man can certainly try. However they will always fail, and instead of proving the Bible to be wrong, they only prove that man is imperfect.

Anyway thanks for pointing me to their website. I unfortunately didn't know about it.

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Old 12-12-2006, 06:19 AM #4
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most people do believe they are "good". we are not "good". we all deserve hell.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:42 PM #5
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Originally Posted by TheSpy11 View Post
When you talk about historical errors, can you point them out with complete certainty? I know you won't be able to since God's Word is infallible, but man can certainly try. However they will always fail, and instead of proving the Bible to be wrong, they only prove that man is imperfect.
Outside of the bible there is no proof of jews being enslaved in egypt, nor of their escape.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:22 PM #6
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Outside of the bible there is no proof of jews being enslaved in egypt, nor of their escape.
I disagree. the Biblical minimalists in archeology are there, but the flip side of the coin is also prevalent. in many Biblical archeology sites there are evidences of Jewish settlements etc. archeology is a science that has much interpretation. depends on point of view and perceptions, especially preconceived ideas or not.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:28 PM #7
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I disagree. the Biblical minimalists in archeology are there, but the flip side of the coin is also prevalent. in many Biblical archeology sites there are evidences of Jewish settlements etc. archeology is a science that has much interpretation. depends on point of view and perceptions, especially preconceived ideas or not.
Proof?
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:47 PM #8
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Proof?
If I give you cites of archaeological evidences, I fully expect you to do the same. let's compare notes.

In a dig in Medinet Habu, near Luxor in Egypt, there have been reed huts probably belonging to slaves, or at the very least forced laborours and with the same floor plan as ancient Israelite four-room houses that have been identified. this one site represents extra biblical evidences of Israel in Egypt at the time period.

Manfred Bietak, a noted Egyptologist, and not a Bible Scholar is one such source that doesn't follow the Biblical minimalist trends. I could go on with views from Biblical archaeologists as well, but thought it best to start with someone agreeing with Biblical archaeologists that doesn't claim being one himself.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:48 PM #9
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Can I get Links to some kind of proof? Dig names? Something?
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:20 PM #10
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Can I get Links to some kind of proof? Dig names? Something?
I gave you information. I suppose you want a linky to the internet somewhere? sorry but not everything is on the Internet and freely available. you will have to go to the library or do some research with your own brain. I gave you the information. if you really are interested, try: Bietak, Manfred. “Israelites Found in Egypt.” Biblical Archaeology Review, Sep/Oct 2003 - to start with.

BTW - still waiting for your "proofs".
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:26 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSpy11 View Post
The site is definitely not weird. Those two gentlemen are Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron (the famous actor) - to which I've had the privilege of listening to their speeches in person. In fact I have one of Ray's books right next to me.

I took the test, and they're right on with Biblical truth. If you fail even one commandment, then you're a sinner, which is punishable by death. If you say that you haven't sinned, then you are certainly lying not only to yourself but also to God since every man has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). Only the saving grace of the Savior's death and resurrection from the dead can save us from our sin.

When you talk about historical errors, can you point them out with complete certainty? I know you won't be able to since God's Word is infallible, but man can certainly try. However they will always fail, and instead of proving the Bible to be wrong, they only prove that man is imperfect.

Anyway thanks for pointing me to their website. I unfortunately didn't know about it.
I find literalism as a whole is weird. If I'm not mistaken, there are allot of historical errors, (doublets[two stories, with the same story line/very similar etc]) and it is impossible for Moses to write the 5 books of Moses if he himself describes his death. But at the same time there are even more historical truths.
I will describe more specific historical errors if anyone is interested.

and according to that site everyone is going to hell, then why is God so forgiving to all the descendants of Abraham mentioned in the bible? Ishamel and Jacob do horrible things to one another, Jacobs sons slaughter many people, and sell their own brother into slavery. Yet there is little mention of anyone going to hell. I feel these passages show how forgiving God really is.

I mean if you are going to take every word in the bible literary, then you agree that "God says it's okay for slave owners to split up slave families" (Exodus 21:4)

In fact, if you are going to take the bible literary, you should look at everything you agree with- http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/fv/long.html
I also feel the view of a vengeful God, was intended as a scare tactic. Considering there was very little authority for the early people of the now Jewish Church, and by creating a image of a angry God, it would scare the people into believing it.
I guess I understand why people use the literalist interpretation of the bible, it seems easy to read the bible without any unknown questions and everything that it says is real, and if science proves it wrong, then the bible isn't wrong science itself is wrong.

All I am trying to get at is: the bible has 100% faith and religious truth, the messages is right, but it does not necessarily have 100% historical truth.

Sorry if I have any wrong statements or anything, please let me know.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:48 PM #12
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I gave you information. I suppose you want a linky to the internet somewhere? sorry but not everything is on the Internet and freely available. you will have to go to the library or do some research with your own brain. I gave you the information. if you really are interested, try: Bietak, Manfred. “Israelites Found in Egypt.” Biblical Archaeology Review, Sep/Oct 2003 - to start with.

BTW - still waiting for your "proofs".
I'm actually busy today...Have a life, family, job....Not every moment of my life can be devoted to this forum.
I'm going to research these people for you in the next couple days.
Finally, what "proofs" are you wanting?
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:00 PM #13
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I'm actually busy today...Have a life, family, job....Not every moment of my life can be devoted to this forum.
I'm going to research these people for you in the next couple days.
Finally, what "proofs" are you wanting?
I too have a life, family and a job, but it is all centrally focused around my Christian beliefs and studies. You are the one that brought up the subject matter, I gave you reference, but it wasn't "easy" enough for you. I was merely trying to present another opinion, the one that I hold.

if you don't agree, then we can agree to disagree, but know that at least I have studied the subject and have come to a conclusion based on those studies. you apparently don't have time for any studies except to try to refute a Christian opinion for some reason. any evidences you would like to provide, though honestly I probably have already read about them.

I am not saying that I am all knowing in the area, but Biblical archaeology, and ancient Biblical languages are a major part of my studies and degrees.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:16 PM #14
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I too have a life, family and a job, but it is all centrally focused around my Christian beliefs and studies. You are the one that brought up the subject matter, I gave you reference, but it wasn't "easy" enough for you. I was merely trying to present another opinion, the one that I hold.

if you don't agree, then we can agree to disagree, but know that at least I have studied the subject and have come to a conclusion based on those studies. you apparently don't have time for any studies except to try to refute a Christian opinion for some reason. any evidences you would like to provide, though honestly I probably have already read about them.

I am not saying that I am all knowing in the area, but Biblical archaeology, and ancient Biblical languages are a major part of my studies and degrees.
U;m sure it's easy for someone to debate a subject that is a big part of your life..
For me I'm in Finals week at my University, where I am an English major, Debating Evolution and Religion in my free time.
The difference between you and me is that you are taking this a bit to serious and want answers fast. Me I like to give it time and research what someone gives me.
So if you'd like a pronto response to your arguement...then I suggest you find someone who doesn't have a 10 page paper on Chaucer and another on Beowulf Due this week.
Sorry to take my time.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:20 PM #15
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U;m sure it's easy for someone to debate a subject that is a big part of your life..
For me I'm in Finals week at my University, where I am an English major, Debating Evolution and Religion in my free time.
The difference between you and me is that you are taking this a bit to serious and want answers fast. Me I like to give it time and research what someone gives me.
So if you'd like a pronto response to your arguement...then I suggest you find someone who doesn't have a 10 page paper on Chaucer and another on Beowulf Due this week.
Sorry to take my time.
serious? yes, because it is my life. remember friend, YOU brought this up, and if you aren't ready to discuss it; then I wonder why you even bring it up?

maybe because in other forums that is the standard, and maybe for other people and posters. I am not that way. If you are too busy to discuss something that you brought up because of college, classes and life, then I might suggest that you use your spare time in study rather than on the Internet.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:59 AM #16
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Funny, I'm listening to Way of the Master Radio right now.

Yeah, they're literalists. The way every Christian was up until like 40 years ago. So did you answer the good person test honestly? Have you ever lied? Stolen? Lusted? Yeah, you have. We all have so what are you arguing with?
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:35 AM #17
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Funny, I'm listening to Way of the Master Radio right now.

Yeah, they're literalists. The way every Christian was up until like 40 years ago. So did you answer the good person test honestly? Have you ever lied? Stolen? Lusted? Yeah, you have. We all have so what are you arguing with?
he's pissed off that even if you've never done anything wrong you're still going to hell according to the Bible. Jesus teaches that until we accept him we will not get into heaven unless we believe in his death burrial and resurrection.
He also states that we do not get into heaven by works, but by faith in Him.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:44 AM #18
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he's pissed off that even if you've never done anything wrong you're still going to hell according to the Bible.
I dont know about that, someone who has never done wrong might have a shot.

Anyone fit this description?

Anyone?








Beuller?
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:40 PM #19
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I dont know about that, someone who has never done wrong might have a shot.

Anyone fit this description?

Anyone?








Beuller?
exactly - the "Law" has been around for a long time, and failure to follow that and be "good" is a reason we now have the New Testament.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:05 PM #20
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Is God going to hell according to the bible? "Thou Shall Not Kill"
"09 August 2006

Who has killed more, Satan or God?
In a previous post, I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,270,365, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled. Still, 2 million is a respectable number even for world class killers.

But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?

Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. I'm talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job."
- http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot....an-or-god.html
Still going to take it literally?

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Old 12-13-2006, 09:29 PM #21
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Is God going to hell according to the bible? "Thou Shall Not Kill"

In the bible, Satan kills a total of 11 people.
In the bible, God kills a estimated total in the MILLIONS
Still going to take it literally?
as I have mentioned elsewhere - and will say it here again. God hasn't murdered anyone.

the original Hebrew for the word "kill" is actually more accurately translated as murder, and most translations of the Bible actually read that way.

I still believe in the Bible.
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