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Old 12-07-2006, 05:22 PM #22
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Atheism typically springs from a very simple epistemology, one that attempts to make as few, and as small, assumptions as possible in explaining things.

I can build a fairly valid epistemology without god:

Existance exists.
-- Reason: impossible to take opposing position

I exist.
-- Reason: impossible for me to take opposing position

I perceive existance.
-- Reason: If I am not perceiving existance/reality, what am I perceiving? AT some level, I am perceiving reality, even if I am a brain in a vat.

[Assumption land]
I can use the past to infer the future with some degree of accuracy.
-- Reason: Scientific induction doesn't give you 100% knowledge. No matter how often something drops in the past or how well you can predict its dropping, that does not mean it will drop the next time you try to drop it.

The assumption there is that I can trust natural law not to randomly change on me, so that the past is a reasonable source of information about the future.

From there, I am capable of walking around the world and having accurate, utilitarian answers to just about all valid questions through empiricism. I would argue that a question that cannot be answered by empricism is either ill stated or must have its validity examined closely - for example, I cannot empirically answer the question, "What is the meaning of life?", because that is not a question about natural reality. My argument is that there is therefore no objective meaning of life, and so the question is not a valid one about objective reality. The human need for a meaning of life does not mean there is one, only that humans must then figure out their way of coping on their own.

I have not yet found something where assuming God is a better course of action than assuming an as-yet undiscovered natural explanation. I don't know how the universe started, but postulating a super-natural, intelligent being with moral designs on the universe is one massive metaphysical leap that I am not willing to take without a significant amount of evidence for it. So far, there is no positive evidence for God, only a lack of explanation for certain questions. That's simply absence of evidence, which, as Einstein was pointing out, doesn't mean anything.

That's my philosophical ramble for the day. I imagine that Atheist apologetics are going to be all over the place, since there's no Atheist CS Lewis quite yet to create focus.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:37 PM #23
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because religion is based on believing and faith, when science is knowing.

there will be a time where we will have the technology to understand it all.

And also that none of which happened when jesus was around, is happening now. kind of like a fairy tale. there is no evidence that god exists, the bible can't be used as evidence. that's like using an ion manual backing you up that the ion is the best marker in the world (because it says so).

I think "god" is an excuse for lack of knowing.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:43 PM #24
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because religion is based on believing and faith, when science is knowing.

there will be a time where we will have the technology to understand it all.
That's some faith you have there :nododgy:


Quote:
And also that none of which happened when jesus was around, is happening now. kind of like a fairy tale. there is no evidence that god exists, the bible can't be used as evidence. that's like using an ion manual backing you up that the ion is the best marker in the world (because it says so).
The New Testament is multiple eyewitness accounts and we have copies from the first century AD. It's a very reliable document. Waaay more reliable than anything else from antiquity. Why don't people make crazy claims about Julius Caesar not existing? They'd have more of a case.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:47 PM #25
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Originally Posted by Hoytie View Post
That's some faith you have there :nododgy:




The New Testament is multiple eyewitness accounts and we have copies from the first century AD. It's a very reliable document. Waaay more reliable than anything else from antiquity. Why don't people make crazy claims about Julius Caesar not existing? They'd have more of a case.
Why are only six of the of the twelve apostolic books in the Bible? Because the other six contradicted the the current six which are the foundation of Christianity. The Bible is extremely subjective.
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:00 PM #26
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Why are only six of the of the twelve apostolic books in the Bible? Because the other six contradicted the the current six which are the foundation of Christianity. The Bible is extremely subjective.
Because they didn't meet the criteria for canonization.

what's subjective about history books, eyewitness accounts, and epistles?
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:06 PM #27
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Because they didn't meet the criteria for canonization.

what's subjective about history books, eyewitness accounts, and epistles?
Why don't you elaborate on why they didn't meet the criteria for canonization.

The Bible is subjective because it doesn't analyze the events from an unbiased perspective. It presents the perspectives of the people who were in support of Jesus's cause. How is it not subjective might be a better question. History books? Isn't the Christian argument that the Bible is not suppose to be a history book?
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:19 PM #28
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Why don't you elaborate on why they didn't meet the criteria for canonization.

The Bible is subjective because it doesn't analyze the events from an unbiased perspective. It presents the perspectives of the people who were in support of Jesus's cause. How is it not subjective might be a better question. History books? Isn't the Christian argument that the Bible is not suppose to be a history book?
Are you just curious about why some books were rejected? Or do you know and you're claiming that the reasons take away from the Bible's credibility?

Well, a lot of the Old Testament is straight history.
"This king took the throne, reigned for 34 years and died. That king took the throne and reigned for 26 years"
"ThisGuy lived 36 years and begat ThatGuy and lived for another 57 years."

And the Gospels are quite bit a more detailed. Not really written as typical history because it's focusing one person but they're still events recorded so other people could know.

And of course the Bible was written by supporters. Why would someone who doesn't care record the events and distribute them? They were supporters because they witnessed Jesus do miracles and rise from the dead. Many of the apostles were martyrs. Why would they die for something they believed to be false? Even Jesus' half-brother James testified that He was sinless. And if you want to get dirt on someone, the siblings know whats up.
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:27 PM #29
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Originally Posted by Hoytie View Post
Are you just curious about why some books were rejected? Or do you know and you're claiming that the reasons take away from the Bible's credibility?

Well, a lot of the Old Testament is straight history.
"This king took the throne, reigned for 34 years and died. That king took the throne and reigned for 26 years"
"ThisGuy lived 36 years and begat ThatGuy and lived for another 57 years."

And the Gospels are quite bit a more detailed. Not really written as typical history because it's focusing one person but they're still events recorded so other people could know.

And of course the Bible was written by supporters. Why would someone who doesn't care record the events and distribute them? They were supporters because they witnessed Jesus do miracles and rise from the dead. Many of the apostles were martyrs. Why would they die for something they believed to be false? Even Jesus' half-brother James testified that He was sinless. And if you want to get dirt on someone, the siblings know whats up.
That's why it's subjective.

And if I recall correctly, the other six apostolic books contained points or accounts which contradicted the other six apostolic books. Since the six apostolic books which are in the Bible now were the most appropriate, the other six were disregarded. (Which is a testament to the Bible's subjectivity )
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:29 PM #30
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every story of god(except your all mighty catholic god MVP since a degree in biochem means you understand why god exists), or gods has been debunked, disproven or just plain retarded.


FSM makes as much sense as any other god and it was made as a joke
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:30 PM #31
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That's why it's subjective.

And if I recall correctly, the other six apostolic books contained points or accounts which contradicted the other six apostolic books. Since the six apostolic books which are in the Bible now were the most appropriate, the other six were disregarded. (Which is a testament to the Bible's subjectivity )
Yeah, there certainly were some contradictions. Could that have been because they weren't accurate? Do you know what the criteria for canonization were and do you know which ones the other books didn't meet?
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:46 PM #32
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The bible doesn't need to be right for their to be a god. The christian god is probably a little too far fetched to be real but without any god it would have been impossible for the universe to ever come into existance.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:01 PM #33
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I am an atheist because the followers of all religions are too contradictory. How do I know what I am supposed to do in order to get God to love me? And why do religions tend to disappear, or go out of style?

I could literally go on forever, I find little bits of evidence that, to me, show a lack of a God described in any religion to date, every day.

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every story of god(except your all mighty catholic god MVP since a degree in biochem means you understand why god exists), or gods has been debunked, disproven or just plain retarded.


FSM makes as much sense as any other god and it was made as a joke
I am gonna sig that, because it is ENTIRELY true.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:01 PM #34
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The bible doesn't need to be right for their to be a god. The christian god is probably a little too far fetched to be real but without any god it would have been impossible for the universe to ever come into existance.
prove it
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:17 PM #35
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I don't believe in God because i don't need a God.

its that simple
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:22 PM #36
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I don't believe in God because i don't need a God.

its that simple
some people need an excuse to get up in the morning, weak minded people
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:27 PM #37
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some people need an excuse to get up in the morning, weak minded people
I don't know if I'd call them weak minded. I would, however, say that they cannot handle the fact that sometimes there are no answers and will believe what appeals to them the most, regardless of it's credibility.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:28 PM #38
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Because I believe god was invented to explain the unexplain in much simpler times
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:30 PM #39
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I am an atheist because the followers of all religions are too contradictory. How do I know what I am supposed to do in order to get God to love me? And why do religions tend to disappear, or go out of style?

I could literally go on forever, I find little bits of evidence that, to me, show a lack of a God described in any religion to date, every day.



I am gonna sig that, because it is ENTIRELY true.
that is also what i find fishy, that religions die out of become history. almost like people are creating religions based on what they like, to make the perfect little religion just for the perfect people.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:34 PM #40
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Why am I atheist? There are a number of reasons and they are in no specific order:

-Lacks sufficient evidence
-Modern science has constantly proven religios theory incorrect
-Religious teachings/Organized religion has created secular groups that are currently destroying the international community
-Religion is a product of Man's insecurity and inability to cope with various aspects of life. Therefore, religion is a belief in others and not one god
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:39 PM #41
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I don't know if I'd call them weak minded. I would, however, say that they cannot handle the fact that sometimes there are no answers and will believe what appeals to them the most, regardless of it's credibility.
weak minded because they cant handle the fact that when they die they just rot away in the ground, so they make up something that will lead them through the "afterlife"
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:43 PM #42
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What is the explination for the first molecule on the planet??? How can something come from nothing? That goes against the laws of thermodynamics..

So even if one were to believe in the big bang, where did those atoms and molecules come from???

I think we needed God to create the first atom or electron or quark or whatever
I believe that matter has ALWAYS existed. Something doesn't always have to come from somewhere ... it can simply have existed for enternity. There are theories that explain a universe that cycles and that there have been many upon many "big bangs." And that it has been happening time and time again.


Also, just to ask you a question. If you happen to believe that EVERYTHING was created and that EVERYTHING has to come from somewhere, where did this god come from? And if he has always existed, how is it hard to believe that the universe has always existed? And if it is believable that the universe has always existed, then where is the need for a god to come create everything?
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