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Old 12-07-2006, 10:37 AM #43
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Ok, my interpretation of the whole why God created Eve is simple. Adam needed a companion like himself, he saw many animals that were the same, but he was the only one of his likeness. He did not have sex with anything, because if you believe the bible (which is needed to keep it in context) then you know that there was no death in the Garden of Eden, therefore, there is no need for Adam to reproduce. When Eve was formed she was like Adam, someone he could call his own. I don't think this relationship was sexual until after the fall of man, from which death, an consequently reproduction were required.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:45 AM #44
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Claiming that God was able to present himself on Earth as a human (How does a perfect god epitomize himself in an imperfect entity?).
Again assuming you believe the bible is true (the only way to keep it in context) then you know man was created in God's own image, so the entity of man is not imperfect.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:47 AM #45
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Originally Posted by X_Paint View Post
Syntx - sentence structure - read it again -

18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”


make him a helper comparable to him.

Out of the ground - that's how every animal was made -

not found a helper comparable to him. nothing comparable -

Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, Woman not made from ground - but part of Adam. The two being one - something comparable.

Where does it say anything about animals being comparable or a sex toy for Adam. Wouldn't that be conjecture?
so in essence, eve is a clone of Adam?
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:59 AM #46
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so in essence, eve is a clone of Adam?
ummmm no. She was made from adam. You were made from your parents...does that make you a clone too?
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:19 AM #47
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ummmm no. She was made from adam. You were made from your parents...does that make you a clone too?
no, because human reproduction results in a unique DNA sequence.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:22 AM #48
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no, because human reproduction results in a unique DNA sequence.
Come on... you are arguing that if Eve was created from a rib that the same omnipotent being could not have made her unique? If God did create her from Adam let's just assume he created her the way she needed to be too. Ok?
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:42 PM #49
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I didn't assume anything in that respect. I'm going by the scripture. The only thing I might be assuming is that the animals were meant to pleasure him sexually. But again, I can only think of one reason why Eve would be satisfying to Adam whereas all other animals are not.
That would make you a pervert....kinda

When i and most people read that line, i know i dont think one thing sexually about it, none of the animals were like adam, none could communicate with him, he couldnt relate to them, so God made adam a partner that was LIKE him, that would satisfy his needs to communicate with another person that he could relate with....i didnt see anything sexual at all in that passage.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:45 PM #50
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Claiming that God was able to present himself on Earth as a human (How does a perfect god epitomize himself in an imperfect entity?).
.

ok when you say he was able to present himself as a human...are you referring to Jesus? because if you are, you should know that Jesus is not God, but the son of God. Jesus was not perfect, he had human flaws, because he was human.

If not, please tell me.
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:51 PM #51
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Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Again assuming you believe the bible is true (the only way to keep it in context) then you know man was created in God's own image, so the entity of man is not imperfect.
Man is perfect? No. Seriously. No. In the Garden of Eden he had no knowledge of evil but he was not perfect. If he was perfect, he would be God.


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That would make you a pervert....kinda

When i and most people read that line, i know i dont think one thing sexually about it, none of the animals were like adam, none could communicate with him, he couldnt relate to them, so God made adam a partner that was LIKE him, that would satisfy his needs to communicate with another person that he could relate with....i didnt see anything sexual at all in that passage.
Communicate? How do you propose Adam and Eve communicated? I'm fairly certain there was no established language at this period in time. And would God not inherently know that the animals wouldn't be able to "communicate" with Adam? And you act like the animals were not intended to be like him. " 'I will make a helper who is like him.' So the Lord God formed out of the ground each wild animal..." This clearly implies that God's intentions here were to make a creature which was like Adam that satisfied Adam. They didn't satisfy Adam so He created Eve who does satisfy him. Also remember that it is often said that in ancient Hebrew texts, helper was actually translated as helpmate. Seriously, you really think God was bringing the animals to Adam so they could hang out in Eden and discuss politics? If not politics what do you propose they would want to communicate about? No, that definitely does not make sense.


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ok when you say he was able to present himself as a human...are you referring to Jesus? because if you are, you should know that Jesus is not God, but the son of God. Jesus was not perfect, he had human flaws, because he was human.

If not, please tell me.
"I and the Father are one" John 10:30

The Trinity? The Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost? They are all one entity. The son, Jesus, is part of the trinity, so he is essentially God. He is also human. So my point is, how does the perfect God present himself in a human body? If Jesus is imperfect, that means the Trinity is imperfect which means God is imperfect.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:20 PM #52
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But again, I can only think of one reason why Eve would be satisfying to Adam whereas all other animals are not.
I mean absolutely no offense by this.

There is more to a relationship being satifying than sex. Yes, sex is part of it, but that is only one issue on compatability. Sex is the main focus only when you are thinking with your male appendage.

What is satisfying in a husband/wife relationship that could not be satisfied in say a man/dog relationship?

Do I really have to answer that for you?
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:28 PM #53
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I mean absolutely no offense by this.

There is more to a relationship being satifying than sex. Yes, sex is part of it, but that is only one issue on compatability. Sex is the main focus only when you are thinking with your male appendage.

What is satisfying in a husband/wife relationship that could not be satisfied in say a man/dog relationship?

Do I really have to answer that for you?
You're comparing a marriage of contemporary times to a "marriage" that was at the beginning of time. Think about it. Adam is alone in a garden. He is only there to "watch over" the Garden. What other purpose would Eve serve considering the circumstances. Other than be companions, they can only eat. Really consider what other purpose Eve would serve in this garden. I'm only being logical here.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:33 PM #54
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You're comparing a marriage of contemporary times to a "marriage" that was at the beginning of time. Think about it. Adam is alone in a garden. He is only there to "watch over" the Garden. What other purpose would Eve serve considering the circumstances. Other than be companions, they can only eat. Really consider what other purpose Eve would serve in this garden. I'm only being logical here.
So you don't believe Adam and Eve had emotions? Communication? Feelings of lonliness?, Joy? Sadness?
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:38 PM #55
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So you don't believe Adam and Eve had emotions? Communication? Feelings of lonliness?, Joy? Sadness?
What reasons would they have to have such feelings? Lonely? They're in the presence of God. I don't think Eve was created because Adam was lonely.
What's there to be sad about, what's there to communicate about? They are in a garden and are ignorant of sin. I don't think Adam needed Eve for any of these reasons. God is certainly apt to communicate and provide fellowship for Adam. So I could essentially ask this, what can Eve satisfy for Adam that neither God nor animals could? And here we derive my previous point...
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:41 PM #56
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I know, the reason i brought up the word marraige is because I was trying to show what is ok in the world today....because people have a negative view of sex in some ways..

It is a very holy and prayerful act, that is to be celebrated...but only within the bounds of marraige and without contraception
I can appreciate (even if I disagree with) the "within the bounds of marriage" bit, but suppose two people are married and already have 8 kids? Suppose a couple cannot afford to have children? Indeed, if you say that God is perfect and also that God created everything, then God created sexual organs, and by implication the signals that tell our brains that sex is pleasurable. Surely if God felt that sex was only for creating offspring, he wouldn't have made it pleasurable, now would he?
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:49 PM #57
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I can appreciate (even if I disagree with) the "within the bounds of marriage" bit, but suppose two people are married and already have 8 kids? Suppose a couple cannot afford to have children? Indeed, if you say that God is perfect and also that God created everything, then God created sexual organs, and by implication the signals that tell our brains that sex is pleasurable. Surely if God felt that sex was only for creating offspring, he wouldn't have made it pleasurable, now would he?
Even I will have to disagree with you there. If sex were not pleasurable, no one would partake in it, and the world would not populate. Although I do recognize the paradox. Why could a perfect God not determine a method of reproduction that didn't invoke sin, but also reproduced?
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:13 PM #58
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What reasons would they have to have such feelings? Lonely?

God: "It not good for man to be alone"

They're in the presence of God.

So are we today

I don't think Eve was created because Adam was lonely.

God: It's not good for man to be alone"

What's there to be sad about, what's there to communicate about? They are in a garden and are ignorant of sin. I don't think Adam needed Eve for any of these reasons.

That hardley rises to the level of making the verses errant - does it?

God is certainly apt to communicate and provide fellowship for Adam. So I could essentially ask this, what can Eve satisfy for Adam that neither God nor animals could? And here we derive my previous point...
And here I'll point this out a third time - yes, sex was certainly part of it, but if you are reducing the relationship of Adam and Eve to soley for sexual gradification, I would say it's a gross assumption at best.

A difference of opinions certainly, but it still doesn't show any errancy whatsoever in the scripture as was first stated.
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:18 PM #59
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. Why could a perfect God not determine a method of reproduction that didn't invoke sin, but also reproduced?
The "method of reproducation" is not a sin. Being disobediant to God is.

Let me ask you this. I know it's not a great possibility, but venture out a minute with me.

If, IF, all of mankind stayed in one relationship - one man, one woman, for life.

- How many STD's would there be?
- How could STD's spread?

- How many would die of AIDS this year?
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:32 PM #60
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The "method of reproducation" is not a sin. Being disobediant to God is.

Let me ask you this. I know it's not a great possibility, but venture out a minute with me.

If, IF, all of mankind stayed in one relationship - one man, one woman, for life.

- How many STD's would there be?
- How could STD's spread?

- How many would die of AIDS this year?
I didn't say it was a sin. I said it invoked sin. Meaning sex is also a temptation outside of marriage. Why would God create a form of reproduction that naturally invokes sin? If I'm not married, I'm still going to want to have sex.

Aids doesn't have to be sexually transmitted.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:52 PM #61
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Come on... you are arguing that if Eve was created from a rib that the same omnipotent being could not have made her unique? If God did create her from Adam let's just assume he created her the way she needed to be too. Ok?
don't assume. make an *** out of yourself all you want but leave me out of it.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:02 PM #62
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I'm unaware how other christian sects interpret the creation story. Catholics hold that this is simply a parable. It is a story. HOWEVER, a very important story, one that has shaped our beliefs and has been a cornerstone to our beliefs. The story itself has many flaws (How did other people randomly show up; if Adam and Eve only had 2 boys and one was murdered, how did the species survive...). However, these flaws are irrelevant to the point and message of the story.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:45 PM #63
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I'm unaware how other christian sects interpret the creation story. Catholics hold that this is simply a parable. It is a story. HOWEVER, a very important story, one that has shaped our beliefs and has been a cornerstone to our beliefs. The story itself has many flaws (How did other people randomly show up; if Adam and Eve only had 2 boys and one was murdered, how did the species survive...). However, these flaws are irrelevant to the point and message of the story.
If the point of the creation story is not to accurately describe creation, than what purpose does it serve? It seems you have only defined it as important because society has deemed it important. Essentially, "It's important because we've made it important"
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