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Old 12-06-2006, 07:56 PM #1
PaInTbAlLFrEaK17 (Banned)
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Intangible view of religion: am I alone?

does anyone else share my view? I feel that religion isn't...it isn't a bound, solid concept. When I hear that the nation I am expect to support, Israel (which I do) has a strict immigration policy stating that no one not of Jewish birth can enter the nation and apply for citizenship. Proof is furnished by rabinical letters. I don't see faith, something so NOT concrete (you can't LOOK christian, it's not 'blood' carried) basis on total denial of citizenship. That's, IMO, racism in practice. I am Jew, yes.
Furthermore, conversion seems...silly to me. How does one LEAVE a faith? I don't see why religion is little more, in terms of association, than a club. It's not so much that I want people to stop 'being' a christian one second, I realize the value of teh rite of conversion, but I'm confused and frustrated. Any one else?
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:02 PM #2
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The thing is, many people believe in Moral Objectivism...(only one right answer to everything)...In other words, God either accepts homosexuality or he doesnt...it cant be both..


The differing beliefs have caused the "club like" things to go on...especially churches with a heirarchy (Catholics) because they are called to follow the pope.

But I do agree with you in some way...We are no able to understand 99 percent of what the Divine is really like.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:06 PM #3
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The thing is, many people believe in Moral Objectivism...(only one right answer to everything)...In other words, God either accepts homosexuality or he doesnt...it cant be both..


The differing beliefs have caused the "club like" things to go on...especially churches with a heirarchy (Catholics) because they are called to follow the pope.

But I do agree with you in some way...We are no able to understand 99 percent of what the Divine is really like.
it's not even that. It's that....do you identify yourself as a roman catholic? IMO, nothing REALLY makes me Jewish or you IC...they're clubs...we simply enter
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:08 PM #4
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Well, we believe in different things...right???

That does create separation between us in some ways....

I believe one thing, and you believe in others..

Roman Catholics believe what the Catholic Church says on different issues,
just as Jewish people believe what the Jewish law says...

Do you understand what I am getting at?
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:11 PM #5
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Originally Posted by visionimpulse2k3 View Post
Well, we believe in different things...right???

That does create separation between us in some ways....

I believe one thing, and you believe in others..

Roman Catholics believe what the Catholic Church says on different issues,
just as Jewish people believe what the Jewish law says...

Do you understand what I am getting at?
I am getting at this:
what is religion? Or moreso, how is it in us, or is it at all?
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:15 PM #6
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Religion..I would say...is the human response to the Holy or Divine...

Religion isnt really in us...

I believe...that there is only one correct answer to everything...this being said...only one religion on this planet is correct...

Religion is a HUMAN made thing...If we all knew the right answer and agreed everything would be spiffy...In our disagreement about what God or gods are like....we separate oursleves into clubs...each thinking we have the right answer
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:16 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visionimpulse2k

Religion isnt really in us...

I believe...that there is only one correct answer to everything...this being said...only one religion on this planet is correct...
jackpot, it isn't in us. As to one correct religion...conveniently yours?
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:21 PM #8
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hahahahah....yes sir!

I hope..
hahaha
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:26 PM #9
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Hm....enjoyable conversation....perplexing
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:29 PM #10
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Hm....enjoyable conversation....perplexing
:puffs pipe: do join, lol
It's just that, IMO, the fact that you look at someone and you can't perform ANYT test to determine their faith (because it IS so manmade) bothers me
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:07 PM #11
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I guess you kinda can do a test in some ways though....ask them what they believe...right?
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:13 PM #12
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....they can say ANYTHING
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:16 PM #13
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Religion: "a set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to supernatural power."
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:16 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaInTbAlLFrEaK17 View Post
does anyone else share my view? I feel that religion isn't...it isn't a bound, solid concept. When I hear that the nation I am expect to support, Israel (which I do) has a strict immigration policy stating that no one not of Jewish birth can enter the nation and apply for citizenship. Proof is furnished by rabinical letters. I don't see faith, something so NOT concrete (you can't LOOK christian, it's not 'blood' carried) basis on total denial of citizenship. That's, IMO, racism in practice. I am Jew, yes.
Furthermore, conversion seems...silly to me. How does one LEAVE a faith? I don't see why religion is little more, in terms of association, than a club. It's not so much that I want people to stop 'being' a christian one second, I realize the value of teh rite of conversion, but I'm confused and frustrated. Any one else?
I could care less about not being accepted in to Israel. Whatever is working for them, don't change it. Do I support Israel? Yes. But I'm not gonna apply for citizenship.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:17 PM #15
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I could care less about not being accepted in to Israel. Whatever is working for them, don't change it. Do I support Israel? Yes. But I'm not gonna apply for citizenship.
Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:19 PM #16
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Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
j00 get the prize.
edit: mo in response to your previous prize, I know religion has that built in.....other-worldliness, but still.
When you say,"I am a Christian, muslim, Jew", etc, what are you REALLY saying? nothing but something you happen to believe in
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:24 PM #17
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My pastor use to say Religion will kill you, but God will save you. He meant that religion tries to set a standard that no reasonable person can live by, and only through the grace of god can we be saved.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:36 PM #18
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Originally Posted by PaInTbAlLFrEaK17 View Post
j00 get the prize.
edit: mo in response to your previous prize, I know religion has that built in.....other-worldliness, but still.
When you say,"I am a Christian, muslim, Jew", etc, what are you REALLY saying? nothing but something you happen to believe in
But what are you but your mental environs? And if your world is defined by your religous views, then you can very well identify yourself as [insert religion].
Or, when it is asked in context, as in "What religion are you?" Then it is the perfectly appropriate answer.
However, if someone asks "What are you?" Only someone for whom their entire existence is defined by religion would answer "I am a [insert religion]."
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:38 PM #19
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But what are you but your mental environs? And if your world is defined by your religous views, then you can very well identify yourself as [insert religion].
Or, when it is asked in context, as in "What religion are you?" Then it is the perfectly appropriate answer.
However, if someone asks "What are you?" Only someone for whom their entire existence is defined by religion would answer "I am a [insert religion]."
I am a human.
I am white and of Romanian decent
I am 5'5 and pudgy
My point is, even if asked blankly, what are you, and you say Christian, faith and beliefs are fine and all (I am not anti-religion), but you are identifying yourself by a loose association at best.
What is your definition of a priest and his connection to christianity?
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:41 PM #20
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Originally Posted by PaInTbAlLFrEaK17 View Post
I am a human.
I am white and of Romanian decent
I am 5'5 and pudgy
My point is, even if asked blankly, what are you, and you say Christian, faith and beliefs are fine and all (I am not anti-religion), but you are identifying yourself by a loose association at best.
What is your definition of a priest and his connection to christianity?
I think we actually agree here...
I might be wrong.
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:19 PM #21
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Furthermore, conversion seems...silly to me. How does one LEAVE a faith? I don't see why religion is little more, in terms of association, than a club. It's not so much that I want people to stop 'being' a christian one second, I realize the value of teh rite of conversion, but I'm confused and frustrated. Any one else?
A religion is about a relationship, you would leave a faith meaning you would leave a friendship
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