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Old 12-08-2006, 01:09 PM #64
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Quote:
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basically the idea that god made the universe and then, once it was running, stopped interfering with it
Deism, I believe.

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If god is able to prevent evil but not willing, then he is malevolent.
1. wishing evil or harm to another or others

Well, sure. So what?

Is there a logical contradiction with an ominpotent being being malevolent?
Does the Bible say that God is benevolent?
and the big one, do those who experience His malevolence deserve it or not?
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Old 12-08-2006, 01:10 PM #65
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YES there is a God. If there wasnt one how did you get here? The only way you can be here and everything else is by Jesus Christ. And guys please caps the "G" in God thxs
lol.

CQ what I mean by determinism is that everything that happens is cause and effect. Every descision we make is because of past experiences, and fate is predetermined because of previous events. Dunno if thats what you are referring to...
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:38 PM #66
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Does the Bible say that God is benevolent?
Uh, yeah. He's so benevolent he gave his only begotten son's life to save mankind. Or so I'm told.

Why would God go to so much trouble to offer salvation to mankind if he's malevolent? But if he is benevolent, why make us jump through so many hoops to be saved? A paradox.

CQ
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:43 PM #67
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Uh, yeah. He's so benevolent he gave his only begotten son's life to save mankind. Or so I'm told.

Why would God go to so much trouble to offer salvation to mankind if he's malevolent? But if he is benevolent, why make us jump through so many hoops to be saved? A paradox.

CQ
One can't be loving yet punish lawbreakers (that is, all of us) at the same time?

And what hoops are you talking about? The Bible says God will forgive those who repent and trust Him. It's the only religion that doesn't require you to actually DO anything. You don't go to heaven by being a good person. You go because you're a bad person who has been forgiven. Since we're bad people, anything bad that happens is perfectly just. Merciful in fact, since death would mean Hell which we also deserve.

Wow....forgive me for that terrible run-on sentence. It's a Friday...
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:16 PM #68
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YES there is a God. If there wasnt one how did you get here? The only way you can be here and everything else is by Jesus Christ. And guys please caps the "G" in God thxs
The first part really makes no sense, if the bible is true then no one is in his family line after him. The second part, no. Why Should I Capitalize god?
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:21 PM #69
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Some need to reconsider the concept of time and infinite. Time is a subjective construct. You're assuming time is infinite. You can't necessarily ask what came before singularity, or what came before the big bang. What if there wasn't a before the big bang. Time could have arisen via the disruption of singularity. Essentially "time" was static during singularity, and dynamic after singularity. Or it could be the exact opposite. Something that is infinite, obviously has no beginning or no end, thus no prime mover. Consider god. Is god something? How did god create something out of nothing? Is god nothing? How does nothing create something? Is nothing not limited to his nothingness, while something is limited to his somethingness? How does one that is nothing transcend nothingness? If he did transcend nothingness wouldn't that make him something? For something to really be something, it has to exist in somethingness would it not? What created the somethingness that it exists in? Maybe when god transcended nothingness, he was everything. But that means the universe is a part of god, so either the universe is perfect and he remains perfect. Or the more logical route, the universe isn't perfect, because it is only a piece of god, but this would also insinuate that god is no longer perfect.

Case in point, there are more questions when considering a deity than when considering the natural procedure of the universes and everything. IMHO of course...
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:48 PM #70
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Originally Posted by Conqueror View Post
Uh, yeah. He's so benevolent he gave his only begotten son's life to save mankind. Or so I'm told.

Why would God go to so much trouble to offer salvation to mankind if he's malevolent? But if he is benevolent, why make us jump through so many hoops to be saved? A paradox.

CQ
please dont take offense to this but it seems like a lot of jewish people have this philosophy. SOrry if its wrong to assume your Jewish by this and by your avatar but what exactly do Jewish people believe in?
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:49 PM #71
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please dont take offense to this but it seems like a lot of jewish people have this philosophy. SOrry if its wrong to assume your Jewish by this and by your avatar but what exactly do Jewish people believe in?
lol, hes atheist, just being a comedian.
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:52 PM #72
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and the big one, do those who experience His malevolence deserve it or not?
I'm not sure if by malevolence, you meant in this life, or the supposed next, but a child born into a starving country that dies before he is the age of 10 because of malnutrition. Does he/she deserve that?
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:11 PM #73
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I'm not sure if by malevolence, you meant in this life, or the supposed next, but a child born into a starving country that dies before he is the age of 10 because of malnutrition. Does he/she deserve that?
deserve the right into heaven?
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:52 PM #74
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lol, hes atheist, just being a comedian.
Actually I was born jewish and was bar-mitzvahed. And I consider myself a secular jew (I believe in the jewish community/culture, but not the religion). So the avvy is only half-joke.

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Old 12-08-2006, 06:53 PM #75
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Actually I was born jewish and was bar-mitzvahed. And I consider myself a secular jew (I believe in the jewish community/culture, but not the religion). So the avvy is only half-joke.

CQ
Oh. What about the rest of your avvy? Whats with the camel-jockey?
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:55 PM #76
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It's the only religion that doesn't require you to actually DO anything.
I think a GREAT MANY Christians would disagree with you. Most believe christians must be active in their faith. Those are the hoops I'm talking about. Depending on what type of christian, that can be anything from going to church every sunday to full-on soapbox proseletyzing (sp?) every day. Sounds like hoops to me. If God really loved me he wouldn't need me to beg him for forgiveness. He would judge me by my good works.

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Old 12-08-2006, 06:58 PM #77
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deserve the right into heaven?
That was my question, I wasn't sure if by malevolence, it meant what happens in this life, or what happens in the supposed after-life.
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:59 PM #78
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If god is willing to prevent evil but not able, then he is not omnipotent.
If god is able to prevent evil but not willing, then he is malevolent.
If god is both able and willing to prevent evil, whence cometh evil?
If god is neither willing nor able to prevent evil, why call him god?

CQ
God gave people free will. That's where evil comes from.
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:01 PM #79
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Originally Posted by Conqueror View Post
If god is willing to prevent evil but not able, then he is not omnipotent.
If god is able to prevent evil but not willing, then he is malevolent.
If god is both able and willing to prevent evil, whence cometh evil?
If god is neither willing nor able to prevent evil, why call him god?

CQ
1. he is able
2.who said he isnt willing?
3.he gave us free will
4.he is willing and able
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:04 PM #80
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I think a GREAT MANY Christians would disagree with you. Most believe christians must be active in their faith. Those are the hoops I'm talking about. Depending on what type of christian, that can be anything from going to church every sunday to full-on soapbox proseletyzing (sp?) every day. Sounds like hoops to me. If God really loved me he wouldn't need me to beg him for forgiveness. He would judge me by my good works.

CQ
But are those things a prereq for salvation? Or a result of it?

And He'll judge you for your bad works too. Thats the important part.
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:29 PM #81
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1. he is able
2.who said he isnt willing?
3.he gave us free will
4.he is willing and able
how do you know?
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:50 PM #82
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1. he is able
2.who said he isnt willing?
3.he gave us free will
4.he is willing and able
He is willing and able? Then what kind of cruel being would continue allowing it? Like christians say, man cannot avoid sin. Man's like a 3yo who keeps pulling pots of boiling water onto himself from off the stove. He can't help himself. God is like the parent. The parent is willing and able to to stop the child from burning himself, and every decent parent on earth WILL. But god does not.

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Old 12-08-2006, 07:55 PM #83
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He is willing and able? Then what kind of cruel being would continue allowing it? Like christians say, man cannot avoid sin. Man's like a 3yo who keeps pulling pots of boiling water onto himself from off the stove. He can't help himself. God is like the parent. The parent is willing and able to to stop the child from burning himself, and every decent parent on earth WILL. But god does not.

CQ
Let's keep the analogy going then. God dove in front of the child and let the boiling water pour all over himself leaving the kid unharmed.
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:56 PM #84
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God might be like Sid from Toy Story.
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