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Old 12-06-2006, 05:06 PM #22
SuperSupra619 (Banned)
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read the quran my brothers and you will know what you didnt know before and learn what you strived to learn
hes right ya know
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:07 PM #23
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There has got to be some god somewhere along the line. How the universe be here? There has to be some god-like figure somewhere in this.

I don't think that stuff just appears..
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:07 PM #24
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hmmmm like I said I respect all religions, personally I dont know if there is a god, if there is then well thats cool, if not, then well maybe ill be reincarnated or however you spell it like Buddha
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:07 PM #25
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Originally Posted by Conqueror View Post
I do not believe in a god of any sort. I believe everything around us is the result of random chances and circumstances that have compounded over the preceding billions of years.

CQ
TBF believes in CQ.

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Originally Posted by Mini Saget View Post
There has got to be some god somewhere along the line. How the universe be here? There has to be some god-like figure somewhere in this.

I don't think that stuff just appears..
Why does God have to be somewhere in this? Why can't the Universe just exist? How are we supposed to have a say in the matter if the human race has only devloped around a quarter of a million years ago while the Universe is billions of years old?

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Old 12-06-2006, 05:08 PM #26
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Originally Posted by Front-Assualt View Post
I believe there is a god, when i look around i cant help but think that something so beautiful (the earth) could be created just by random chance and luck that these atoms happened to join with those atoms and such. Thats why i believe.
Ah, but "beauty" is not objective. What you find beautiful, an alien race might find disgusting and offensive. You believe the earth is beautiful because you live here, and humans don't like thinking that they live in a stinkhole, so they have taught their children that things like sunrises and blue skies are beautiful. If the earth had a red sky and black water, you probably would have been raised to believe that red skies and tarry beaches were beautiful. Just because something is "beautiful" doesn't mean it wasn't random.

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Old 12-06-2006, 05:09 PM #27
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:10 PM #28
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Sure there is, and it's an elegantly simple one. E=MC^2. The theory of relativity provides a very simple method for creating matter (something) out of energy (nothing).

CQ
But where did the energy come from? A previous universe? If so, what caused the previous universe? Has the universe(s) been developing and collapsing for an infinite amount of time? If not, it had to start somewhere. Basically, I'm looking for an answer to why or how an event occured. Even if you explain the big bang, and the 10 events that caused it, you still have something to explain before that. You either have to go back throughout an infinite past and answer each question, or something has to start the chain off. I personally cannot fathom one, or multiple, universe(s) collapsing and forming for an infinite amount of time in the past. The concept of infinite is just too incredible for me to explain without some supreme being.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:12 PM #29
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Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
But where did the energy come from? A previous universe? If so, what caused the previous universe? Has the universe(s) been developing and collapsing for an infinite amount of time? If not, it had to start somewhere. Basically, I'm looking for an answer to why or how an event occured. Even if you explain the big bang, and the 10 events that caused it, you still have something to explain before that. You either have to go back throughout an infinite past and answer each question, or something has to start the chain off. I personally cannot fathom one, or multiple, universe(s) collapsing and forming for an infinite amount of time in the past. The concept of infinite is just too incredible for me to explain without some supreme being.
The easy answer is God. It's not like a person who doesn't believe in god can just use a simple answer.

In detail graysonp, please go ahead and explain to me where exactly the universe(s) came from and how they were caused.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:15 PM #30
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Religion is poison.
That was COMPLETELY unnecessary....Even if you don't like any religion (like me) you still shouldn't just go along and just do that..

ESPECIALLY coming from an ASM member.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:16 PM #31
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It is just as rediculous to me to believe that this whole world was created, everything, the humans, animals, plants, stars, planets, everything that perfectly syncronizes to each other the way that it does was created by pure chance.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:17 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Conqueror View Post
Ah, but "beauty" is not objective. What you find beautiful, an alien race might find disgusting and offensive. You believe the earth is beautiful because you live here, and humans don't like thinking that they live in a stinkhole, so they have taught their children that things like sunrises and blue skies are beautiful. If the earth had a red sky and black water, you probably would have been raised to believe that red skies and tarry beaches were beautiful. Just because something is "beautiful" doesn't mean it wasn't random.

CQ
maybe i do find tarry beaches and red skies beautiful
but seriously..a red sky would be awesome.

But forget the earth, how about the night sky, where all we see are stars, thats beyond our control and i find it beautiful as do many of other people, i would find it hard to believe an alien race would find the cosmos "disgusting and offensive"

but who am i to speculate on what an alien race might believe.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:17 PM #33
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Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
I personally cannot fathom one, or multiple, universe(s) collapsing and forming for an infinite amount of time in the past. The concept of infinite is just too incredible for me to explain without some supreme being.
To me that's quite easy to fathom. To me, there are many, MANY questions to which we have no answers at this point. That doesn't mean we won't have the answers in the future. I mean, at some point in the past, people thought matter was made of fire, water, earth, and air. We have conclusively proved that not to be the case. Similarly, though we do not know today what lies beyond our universe, that is no reason to ascribe it to "god."

CQ
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:18 PM #34
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Originally Posted by SuperSupra619 View Post
It is just as rediculous to me to believe that this whole world was created, everything, the humans, animals, plants, stars, planets, everything that perfectly syncronizes to each other the way that it does was created by pure chance.
Why?

CQ
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:19 PM #35
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Why?

CQ
I'm going with CQ on this one. Why don't you believe just the slightest bit that anything wasn't made by "god"??
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:22 PM #36
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To me that's quite easy to fathom. To me, there are many, MANY questions to which we have no answers at this point. That doesn't mean we won't have the answers in the future. I mean, at some point in the past, people thought matter was made of fire, water, earth, and air. We have conclusively proved that not to be the case. Similarly, though we do not know today what lies beyond our universe, that is no reason to ascribe it to "god."

CQ
But even if you answer the many questions that you don't have the answers to, you still create more questions. In my mind, there are only two options: A past that is infinite, with an infinite number of universes, and an infinite number of questions to answer about them. Or option 2, a supreme being of some type created it all, whether it be 2,000 years ago, or 2 trillion centuries ago. And in my opinion, it's more likely that something had a hand in the universe, rather than an infinite past and an infinite future.

Even if my own religion is wrong, I still think that some type of being that has more understanding and power than anything we've ever known is likely to exist. Maybe the supreme being that did create all of this is unknown. Maybe it's not a god that we should worship, but instead an objective hand that doesn't involve itself with the universe anymore. Maybe we are simply pawns in a matrix-esque universe and we'll never even realize it. To me, any of these situations is a more likely explaination than just saying that the universe is infinite and our existance is merely a coincidence of an infinite amount of events.

Last edited by graysonp : 12-06-2006 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:24 PM #37
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Why?

CQ
Well first, something must have created all the matter that makes up the universe, right?

Anyway, what do you mean by why? How do you expect me to answer that? I do not believe that science could create something so perfect, so amazing by just a nano-scale chance of it happening
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:25 PM #38
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But even if you answer the many questions that you don't have the answers to, you still create more questions. In my mind, there are only two options: A past that is infinite, with an infinite number of universes, and an infinite number of questions to answer about them. Or option 2, a supreme being of some type created it all, whether it be 2,000 years ago, or 2 trillion centuries ago. And in my opinion, it's more likely that something had a hand in the universe, rather than an infinite past and an infinite future. Even if my own religion is wrong, I still think that some type of being that has more understanding and power than anything we've ever known is likely to exist.
Let me ask you this

Where did that "supreme being" come from?

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Well first, something must have created all the matter that makes up the universe, right?

Anyway, what do you mean by why? How do you expect me to answer that? I do not believe that science could create something so perfect, so amazing by just a nano-scale chance of it happening

Why?
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:25 PM #39
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But even if you answer the many questions that you don't have the answers to, you still create more questions. In my mind, there are only two options: A past that is infinite, with an infinite number of universes, and an infinite number of questions to answer about them. Or option 2, a supreme being of some type created it all, whether it be 2,000 years ago, or 2 trillion centuries ago. And in my opinion, it's more likely that something had a hand in the universe, rather than an infinite past and an infinite future. Even if my own religion is wrong, I still think that some type of being that has more understanding and power than anything we've ever known is likely to exist.
The answer of God to the question of "Where does everything come from?" creates just as many questions as "We don't know.".
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:26 PM #40
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Let me ask you this

Where did that "supreme being" come from?

?

thats just as valid as the question : "what was there before the big bang?"
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:29 PM #41
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thats just as valid as the question : "what was there before the big bang?"
That's pretty much it, we know nothing.. all we can do is wait for science to do its stuff, but until then, we have no answer to any of these questions.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:31 PM #42
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The answer of God to the question of "Where does everything come from?" creates just as many questions as "We don't know.".
But my point is that some type of being has power that we can never understand. Some being has the answers that we never will. In my opinion, it's just too unlikely that our existance is just a coincidence and someTHING or someONE must have an answer that we will never know.

I edited my previous post as you posted that and I think maybe it will help:

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Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
Even if my own religion is wrong, I still think that some type of being that has more understanding and power than anything we've ever known is likely to exist. Maybe the supreme being that did create all of this is unknown. Maybe it's not a god that we should worship, but instead an objective hand that doesn't involve itself with the universe anymore. Maybe we are simply pawns in a matrix-esque universe and we'll never even realize it. To me, any of these situations is a more likely explaination than just saying that the universe is infinite and our existance is merely a coincidence of an infinite amount of events.
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