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Old 10-06-2006, 09:37 PM #22
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If you wander up to anyone protected by the Secret Service, and make any statement, or action that could, in the slightest way, be considered hostile, you will be arrested. He didn't yell it from the back of the crowed, he got right up close, close enough to shoot, or stab the VP, and made a negative statement.
Also note, they didn't grab him, and arrest him on the spot, they let him walk away. He was arrested when he came back after enough time to have gotten a weapon and returned.

Getting within 3 feet of the VP isn't easy, and it bothers the hell out of the Service guys when the VP, or President wants to do something that allows people who haven't been screened to get that close. Don't forget, that's how Reagan got shot.
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Old 10-06-2006, 09:54 PM #23
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walking with his kid...
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:01 PM #24
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that guy better not go on a hunting trip in the near future
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Old 10-07-2006, 12:25 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantrepes
If you wander up to anyone protected by the Secret Service, and make any statement, or action that could, in the slightest way, be considered hostile, you will be arrested. He didn't yell it from the back of the crowed, he got right up close, close enough to shoot, or stab the VP, and made a negative statement.
Also note, they didn't grab him, and arrest him on the spot, they let him walk away. He was arrested when he came back after enough time to have gotten a weapon and returned.

Getting within 3 feet of the VP isn't easy, and it bothers the hell out of the Service guys when the VP, or President wants to do something that allows people who haven't been screened to get that close. Don't forget, that's how Reagan got shot.
So basically, in today's world, voicing your opinion to the proper authorities is hostile and could be considered fatal? If that's the case, then it looks like the SS dropped the ball and let this hostile, evil, deterimined to kill the president, man get too close huh.
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Old 10-07-2006, 02:06 PM #26
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Voicing them is fine, as they showed when he walked away after the first comment. Leaving, then coming back after enough time has passed to go get a weapon is not.
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Old 10-07-2006, 02:31 PM #27
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**** Cheney. Su me, fat man.
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Old 10-07-2006, 02:39 PM #28
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Originally Posted by vantrepes
Voicing them is fine, as they showed when he walked away after the first comment. Leaving, then coming back after enough time has passed to go get a weapon is not.
Ok, but it was a mall. Sometimes you have to park at one end of the mall and then walk to the other side. He had his son with him. I can understand your gun theory, but in reality, when the SS saw he was unarmed, it should have been case closed, no harm done. But instead, they arrested him in front of his child, and claiming social services would come for his kid. I'm not sure if you're a parent or not, but that kind of **** doesn't sit right with me personally.
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Old 10-07-2006, 02:59 PM #29
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You do understand that calling Social Services is required when a parent is arrested, and there is no one to care for the child, don't you? A cop can't arrest someone, and leave their kid standing there. They have to call social because the police are not set up to care for a child at a precinct house. They didn't call Social because Mom showed up, and was able to care for the child.

As for "but it was in front of his kid"..... I guess his son got a lesson on civil disobedience, and a deeper lesson on correct application of the law, since Daddy was released within hours, then all charges dropped.

How do you think they found out he was unarmed? They searched him. If you think this guy would have claimed "no harm done" after being subjected to a pat down search without being arrested, then you are kidding yourself. You know you would be busy posting here about "ow his privacy was violated, and he wasn't even arrested" if they patted him down, and sent him on his way.

Maybe the Secret Service should pat everyone down who comes within 100' of the VP in a mall? That's the kind of authority you are suggesting they should have.....
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Old 10-07-2006, 04:36 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantrepes
You do understand that calling Social Services is required when a parent is arrested, and there is no one to care for the child, don't you? A cop can't arrest someone, and leave their kid standing there. They have to call social because the police are not set up to care for a child at a precinct house. They didn't call Social because Mom showed up, and was able to care for the child.

As for "but it was in front of his kid"..... I guess his son got a lesson on civil disobedience, and a deeper lesson on correct application of the law, since Daddy was released within hours, then all charges dropped.

How do you think they found out he was unarmed? They searched him. If you think this guy would have claimed "no harm done" after being subjected to a pat down search without being arrested, then you are kidding yourself. You know you would be busy posting here about "ow his privacy was violated, and he wasn't even arrested" if they patted him down, and sent him on his way.

Maybe the Secret Service should pat everyone down who comes within 100' of the VP in a mall? That's the kind of authority you are suggesting they should have.....
Not to sound like a douche or anything, but I think I'd be able to kill someone from further than 3 feet away...maybe? If someone really wanted to kill him, it could EASILY be done. It has nothing to even do with privacy, and I do believe that there are not any laws against saying something negative about our government and/or political figures. Furthermore, stating that "calling social services when a parent is arrested" is completely irrelevant to this argument.

If someone REALLY wanted Cheney or any other big political figure dead; It wouldn't be hard AT ALL. So, the point of having any sort of security for him is to bascially scare people, because I'm assuming there hasn't been too many cases where body guards and/or secret service people have actually saved any important political figures life.

So in the end, it was COMPLETELY unnecessary for the secret services to arrest that guy, he is not the only one that has something negative to say, there are no laws against what he did, and anyone with a little bit of common sense could figure out how to kill Cheney.
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Old 10-07-2006, 10:25 PM #31
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It's easy to hit people in a crowd, it is very difficult to hit a single person in a crowd unless you are face to face with them. That is why the Service hates the meet and greet in unsecured locations. This guy got face to face, then walked away. When he was coming back, the Service saw him, did the time line, and arrested him. Think about it. "Well, if I got that close the first time, maybe I can shoot/stab/whatever now that I went to my car and got it." Also, the Service is trained to spot people's body language. People who are trying to "pull something off" have a distinct air about them. It is very, very difficult to "act normal" when you are about to commit a crime of this magnitude. Ask any cop, bouncer, or security, and they will tell you the same thing. I know, I worked crowds, large and small, and the trouble makers stand out.

Quote:
Furthermore, stating that "calling social services when a parent is arrested" is completely irrelevant to this argument.
It's perfectly relevant, since this guy implied it was used as a threat against him by the Officer. Of course, that was after he tried to use the fact that his kid was there to avoid the arrest in the first place...

Quote:
If someone REALLY wanted Cheney or any other big political figure dead; It wouldn't be hard AT ALL. So, the point of having any sort of security for him is to bascially scare people, because I'm assuming there hasn't been too many cases where body guards and/or secret service people have actually saved any important political figures life.

So in the end, it was COMPLETELY unnecessary for the secret services to arrest that guy, he is not the only one that has something negative to say, there are no laws against what he did, and anyone with a little bit of common sense could figure out how to kill Cheney.
Wouldn't be hard at all? Educate yourself on the security measures used by US Presidents, and VPs as well as other heads of state, then say that. Oddly enough, assassinations are rare for the very reason they are so difficult to pull off because of those measures.
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Old 10-07-2006, 10:36 PM #32
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freedom of speech only goes so far ya know
god bless america!
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Old 10-07-2006, 11:10 PM #33
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Notice they didnt prosecute him for a crime?

It's completely within any law enforcement agency's right to detain someone for a set amount of time based on suspicion of anything. Agency's have a right to detain you for a set amount of time without even telling you anything if they suspect it will prevent a crime, any judge in this country will approve it and end any case that claims differently, thats why they go to the supreme court because they have been appealed 700 times because no judge in the world thinks differently.

It's a standard feature of American law enforcement and if it doesn't happen it's only because the D.A. doesn't want a court case, not because they aren't within there right to.

He will loose his case no matter how far he takes it.

If you have a problem with it I suggest you get cracking on that BAR certification so you can get to work on becoming a notable enough Supreme Court Justice to even voice your opinion in a way that matters to anyone. And should you somehow get that far, by that time you will have realized the necessity of that right of law.

They had reason to suspect he may be trying to take a crack at the VP's life, so they detained him and followed procedure, even by saying they'd send his kid to social services they were simply following procedure, if you have a problem with that as well, once again get cracking on that Law degree. He said something that gave rise to suspicion, and the way he said it [as he described it] definetly didn't help his case [people who have planned ahead to kill people are generally pretty calm and collected], he then was in a place where agents considered the factor that he may have retrieved the means to kill a political figure. So they detained him to prevent what could possibly have led to one dead,rich,powerful fat man.

I can say: **** Dick Cheney, on here a million times and it's no problem because I'm not within assasination range of him, should I be within hand-gun range and say something to that degree then I may well get detained. Live with it.

-Deen
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:35 AM #34
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**** Cheney. Su me, fat man.
You are truly a man with some cojones.
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Old 10-08-2006, 04:11 PM #35
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i dont see anything wrong with that. its all about where you are at the time in my oppinion. you shoudlnt wear something like that at an even like teh state of the union adress, it just insues violence and unneeded hatred for one another. if she was out on the street, then sure, i dont care if she wears it.

its like a hippy going to a veterans memorial service and holding up a sign that says VETS ARE BABY KILLERS! its unneeded and inapproriate at that specific place. however, if that person goes to some hippy rally where 20,000 other people are supporting that same message, then sure, no violence is gonna insue from such a sign.

freedom of speech only goes so far ya know
its a good thing your completely wrong.
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:30 PM #36
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Well I think there at least needs to be an investigation into this. Secret Service really has no sense of humor and they have a reputation for hauling people into "interviews" who put pictures of Presidents on dart boards and throw darts at them. Apparently, Bush hasn't corrected some of the thuggery used by government officials during the Clinton administration. At least its not the BATF - they're the worst of the worst.
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