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Old 10-06-2006, 11:43 AM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
You're not getting it. They're not going to be opposed until they have pulled their gun, and fired. By then, it's too late. Perhaps too late to stop the 1st shots. Not to late to stop anything after that.

As I stated before, we don't know how. If we knew, these things wouldn't still be happening. You have to accept at some point that you are at the mercy of your environment. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Exactly, and a few armed teachers would be in a better position to limit that.

We arm soldiers so they can fight back against a conventional enemy that values his own life. A gun doesn't do a damn bit of good against a suicidal maniac. It does if that gun stops him before he's done.

If we regularly had commandos seiging our public schools, I would be all for teachers carrying guns.
It doesn't matter who is attacking. Having some armed teachers is the difference between have some control of the situation and having none at all. I would always pick some control over no control.
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:43 AM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
Lets see I want to go kill as many people as I can. Do I:

a)pick a school where I know for a fact there are no firearms at

or

b)pick a office building, knowing 20%-30% of the people there by stats have and do CCW and I have no clue who does or doesnt.
You're ignoring the fact that if teachers carried guns, even a random percentage of them, I could still pick out the people in a room that could carry a gun, and focus on them first.

On another note:
Everyone needs to stop talking about CCW out on the streets, IT DOES NOT APPLY HERE. You are not facing the same person on the streets as you are when there's a suicidal maniac running around. THEY ARE NOT COMPARABLE!!!!
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:47 AM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
You're ignoring the fact that if teachers carried guns, even a random percentage of them, I could still pick out the people in a room that could carry a gun, and focus on them first.

On another note:
Everyone needs to stop talking about CCW out on the streets, IT DOES NOT APPLY HERE. You are not facing the same person on the streets as you are when there's a suicidal maniac running around. THEY ARE NOT COMPARABLE!!!!
Do they wear signs now? Whats the difference? How do I tell who is who?
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:49 AM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptiwave
Do they wear signs now? Whats the difference? How do I tell who is who?
Once again, you can't. Accept that. It sucks, but it's life.
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:49 AM #68
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If a person wants to infict harm they will regardless of who has a gun,also anyone have a teacher that snaped? A spanish teacher my 9th grade year threw a boy out of class into the hall and started beating him ....now imagine if he had a gun
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:52 AM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
Once again, you can't. Accept that. It sucks, but it's life.
Exactly. You dont know and you cant tell who is going to snap and whos going to just write emo poetry.
But you can be prepared for the worst.
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:06 PM #70
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Originally Posted by Deceptiwave
But you can be prepared for the worst.
It's the worst that you can't prepare for.
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:07 PM #71
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Brining more guns into schools is definately the answer...
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:10 PM #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
It's the worst that you can't prepare for.
How so?
If The worst thing that can happen at a school is a gunman shooting people and taking hostages, than arm the teachers, train them to use force, and deter the threat.
That is preperation for the worst.
If the worst is a Volcano then get the supplies you need to evacuate or dig in.
A little planning and creativity can go a long way. Maybe save a few lives.
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:14 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
It's the worst that you can't prepare for.
so lets all sit around and be sheep.

as I said spiral, you are a moron to the core.
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:16 PM #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious_J
If a person wants to infict harm they will regardless of who has a gun,also anyone have a teacher that snaped? A spanish teacher my 9th grade year threw a boy out of class into the hall and started beating him ....now imagine if he had a gun
News article, police report, proof of some kind. I absolutely do not belive you, because had this happend the teacher would have been all over the news.
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

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Old 10-06-2006, 12:29 PM #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
so lets all sit around and be sheep.

as I said spiral, you are a moron to the core.
What if someone were to walk up behind you, and put a bullet in the back of your head? What the **** do you do to prepare for that? You see it as me laying down and being a sheep, I see it as not wasting my time with **** I can't control. If it could be effectively controlled, it would have been done after Columbine.

And stop with your personal attacks, they don't do anything for you or me. If you can't argue using your intelligence, don't argue using your stupidity.
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:34 PM #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
What if someone were to walk up behind you, and put a bullet in the back of your head? What the **** do you do to prepare for that? You see it as me laying down and being a sheep, I see it as not wasting my time with **** I can't control. If it could be effectively controlled, it would have been done after Columbine.

And stop with your personal attacks, they don't do anything for you or me. If you can't argue using your intelligence, don't argue using your stupidity.
then you DIE, simple as that. However what if you are a teacher across the hall when you see a student or other person shoot the teacher in the next classroom. If you are prepaird you can draw your weapon at that instant and perhaps STOP that person before they can kill again.

Seriously man, use your brain for once.
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

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ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

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Old 10-06-2006, 12:58 PM #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
News article, police report, proof of some kind. I absolutely do not belive you, because had this happend the teacher would have been all over the news.
My mom friends from work's son got punched in the face by his english teacher. The kid has an awful attitude so I believe it, they didn't press charges but the teacher lost his license. I'll try and find the article. It was at Minnetonka Senior High School in Minnetonka, MN though. The kids name was Kyle Miller. I don't know if he was old enough for his name to be released (16 in minnesota) when it happened.
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:24 PM #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
Ok think about this

Guy comes into room with guns, starts linning people up..

a)no armed teacher, guy kills 6 girls

b)armed teacher kills guy, accidently killing one student in the crossfire.

Thats a net of 5 lives saved.
or kid with gun shoots teacher as he reaches for gun, then shoots 6 kids he has lined up, then himself...
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:33 PM #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wango_Tango
or kid with gun shoots teacher as he reaches for gun, then shoots 6 kids he has lined up, then himself...
It would be sad that in that particular case the fact that the teacher had a gun did not prevent or difuse the situation. However, if teachers were permitted to be armed, that would not be true in every case.
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Old 10-06-2006, 02:41 PM #80
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There are far too many variables involved here for anyone to suggest that Mrs. Jackson packing a .45 is a good idea. Sure, under ideal circumstances, a shooter enters the school with the intent to kill and maim and Mrs. Jackson puts three rounds in his chest. However, the likelyhood of something like that occuring is ridiculous. As was previously stated, the aggressor is always going to have the uper hand in scenarios such as the one described. Teachers packing pistols will not solve any problems. Teachers will just be the first targets.

Not only will teachers+pistols fail to stop violence in schools, it will most likely lead to more. Now we have guns on campus at all times. For those kids not lucky enough to have access to mommy and daddy's gun safe, there is a 9mm in their Algebra 2 teacher's desk.


Throwing guns into a school environment isn't a good idea. It's completely ****ing retarded. Obviously the solution to the problem of kids shooting each other is to give them access to more guns.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:00 PM #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear


they have been there all along, its only in the last 10-15 years they were baned. THATS THE POINT, when people use to be able to have their personal weapon on them, you didn't see school shootings.

Ever hear of a shooting at school in the 40's? 50's? even 60's or 70's NOPE its only with the push of liberal gun hating nuts that our schools have gotten more dangerous.

I hate to use this analagy but, its like the war on pot. The more they fight legaliseign it the more people want it. Same with guns the more they outlaw them, the more people are going to do BAD things with them ebcause not enough GOOD people will be carrying.
You are fundamentally retarded. Times have changed buddy... The types of crime committed now, the crime rates, and the people committing the crimes have changed drastically.

How about doing something about ****ty parents, ****ty schools, and gang eradication. It use to be "gangs" were the bullies that just ****ed with everyone, drank and stole cars. Now Gangs are run like full fledged business--but their busines is murder, drugs, and other various felonies.


You are seriously inept and need to stop spreading your useless propoganda to impressionable minds. To think that gun control has contributed to more school shootings is irrational and incompetent.

Seriously. You are a moron. Your ideas are stupid. You are the most ignorant, inept, and clueless poster on this board. Go on living your life as a self-hating, self-righteous(yes, you've proven that combo is possible) moron and quit pretending to have any significant political knowledge.

I don't see you *****ing that tons of our other civil liberties are being destroyed--yet your wacko nut job gun ideas are the only important thing. (see Cheney thread up in this forum)
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:21 PM #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM
It would be sad that in that particular case the fact that the teacher had a gun did not prevent or difuse the situation. However, if teachers were permitted to be armed, that would not be true in every case.
true

but not all teachers are proficcient in firearms usage and how to shoot, handle, take care of a gun. All these teachers that we're giving guns too have to be trained because someone with a gun who has no idea on how to use it is pretty worthless in a situation this bill is expecting to happen.

Now, who is going to pay for that? The schools? The State? The Feds? Everyone will pass the buck down the line. Who knows how much training will be, not to mention whose going to actually supply the firearms. Are teachers going to be required to buy one before they start teaching? Are the schools going to purchase them, the State, the Feds? Will they get a Student/Gov't discount on them?

Few teachers have guns in the more states that lean democrat...no doubt about it. WHen i was in school i knew only 3 teachers who had guns for anything. Right now theres too many if's, and's, or buts with this kind of bill. Could it be made better or more feasible? I'm sure. But as it is right now, im against this kind of bill getting passed.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:23 PM #83
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uh no. this is a bad idea. might as well just give the cops some text books and have them teach the classes themselves, because that's the only way it would work.

These are teachers:







even if you did arm them, i doubt they'd be effective in stopping someone trained with firearms.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:27 PM #84
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you know not all teachers are like that. I've had a couple that were more than capable of taking down the biggest kids in our school 1 on 1.
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