Teachers with guns. - Page 3 - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 10-06-2006, 10:57 AM #43
Ford
☻♦♣b
 
Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin 49
Ford is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
I can see the bumper stickers now:

"My Student has been shot by your student's teacher"
__________________
"Originally posted by Bronk0
Everyone put something in your sig about it...

like PORN THREAD 10/24/04: I was there.
"
Ford is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-06-2006, 11:00 AM #44
Spiral_Out
Airplanes > Treadmills
 
Spiral_Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas, wtf Mavs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptiwave
The idea of the teacher being armed may be enough of a deterent than the weapon itself.
Its the same with cities that have CC laws. If the citizens can legally carry a concealed weapon, the crime rates are lower than the cities that ban CC weapons.
If a criminal thinks there is a chance you may fight back, he most likey wont attack.
If teachers are armed, a person may think twice about entering a school that can defend itself.
I agree with you on random citizen ownership, a criminal won't want to take the chance of their victim or even another citizen shooting them. If you arm teachers, a potential shooter knows exactly who has a gun, and therefore they know who they will have to kill first. A teacher can't be on their guard and ready to shoot all day every day, they're going to lose every time.

Another way these people are different from your average criminal on the street is they're suicidal. They're not concerned with their own lives, and they're not concerned with escaping. They go into those situations to do 2 things, kill and die, which is, unfortunately, all too easy.

There is no good way to defend against this kind of stuff, it's exactly what our military faces with suicide bombers these days. They can't do **** about it, it's a virtually foolproof tactic. The only person who can screw it up is the person doing it.
__________________
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
He promised I would find a little
Solace and some peace of mind.
Whatever, just as long as I don't feel so
Desperate and ravenous... So weak and powerless...

Last edited by Spiral_Out : 10-06-2006 at 11:04 AM.
Spiral_Out is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:02 AM #45
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
I agree with you on random citizen ownership, a criminal won't want to take the chance of their victim or even another citizen shooting them. If you arm teachers, a potential shooter knows exactly who has a gun, and therefore they know who they will have to kill first. .

BBBZZZzzzzzz im sorry wrong answer but thanks for playing. We have a lovely parting gift for you, the ST: P home game, pick it up on your way out.


Explain to me how someone is going to know who is or isnt packing. This is not a mandatory "every teacher must pack" its a "If you have a CCW you are welcome to carry on campus" thing.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:07 AM #46
Ford
☻♦♣b
 
Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin 49
Ford is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
I dont see how you think giving teachers or faculty a gun would solve the problem. It isnt like people havent gone on rampages in places that have lots of people with guns. Here in texas in the past 2 years there have been several people who go on some rampage at a courthouse with a big gun shooting police who have but a mere 9mm to defend themselves.

Giving teachers guns wont change anything, except attackers will make sure to bring more overwhelming firepower
__________________
"Originally posted by Bronk0
Everyone put something in your sig about it...

like PORN THREAD 10/24/04: I was there.
"
Ford is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:07 AM #47
Spiral_Out
Airplanes > Treadmills
 
Spiral_Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas, wtf Mavs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
BBBZZZzzzzzz im sorry wrong answer but thanks for playing. We have a lovely parting gift for you, the ST: P home game, pick it up on your way out.


Explain to me how someone is going to know who is or isnt packing. This is not a mandatory "every teacher must pack" its a "If you have a CCW you are welcome to carry on campus" thing.
No problem, kill the teacher and you have eliminated the only possible threat. If they had a gun, great, if they didnt, great, the end result is still the same: a classroom of hostages.

Unless you're proposing allowing students to carry on campus? Surely you see the dangers of that...
__________________
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
He promised I would find a little
Solace and some peace of mind.
Whatever, just as long as I don't feel so
Desperate and ravenous... So weak and powerless...
Spiral_Out is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:08 AM #48
Deceptiwave
Built to Endure
 
Deceptiwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TITSMANIA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
BBBZZZzzzzzz im sorry wrong answer but thanks for playing. We have a lovely parting gift for you, the ST: P home game, pick it up on your way out.


Explain to me how someone is going to know who is or isnt packing. This is not a mandatory "every teacher must pack" its a "If you have a CCW you are welcome to carry on campus" thing.
Not only the teachers but the maint. staff and the lunch lady too.
I am just wondering how many more school shooting will have to take place before someone says enough.
Give them a chance to defend themselves.
__________________
NW WOLVERINES!
To the Dedicated- "The squat rack is our church. The Deadlift platform our temple"
Don't Tread On Me.
God Bless The Man That Gets In My Way...
Lift Hard. Die Strong.
Deceptiwave is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:12 AM #49
Spiral_Out
Airplanes > Treadmills
 
Spiral_Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas, wtf Mavs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptiwave
Not only the teachers but the maint. staff and the lunch lady too.
I am just wondering how many more school shooting will have to take place before someone says enough.
Give them a chance to defend themselves.
Unfortunately there is no chance for defense. Look at suicide bombers, how the hell can you possibly defend against that? You can't, there is no possible way. The only thing we can do is prevent these attacks from occuring in the planning stages.
__________________
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
He promised I would find a little
Solace and some peace of mind.
Whatever, just as long as I don't feel so
Desperate and ravenous... So weak and powerless...
Spiral_Out is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:16 AM #50
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
Unfortunately there is no chance for defense. Look at suicide bombers, how the hell can you possibly defend against that? You can't, there is no possible way. The only thing we can do is prevent these attacks from occuring in the planning stages.
OH yea your right so we should just sit like sheeple and go with the flow and not do a thing to try

Spiral, you win the Moron of the week award. I weep for the future with sheep like you around who have no desire or understanding how to defend themselves.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:18 AM #51
Deceptiwave
Built to Endure
 
Deceptiwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TITSMANIA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
Unfortunately there is no chance for defense. Look at suicide bombers, how the hell can you possibly defend against that? You can't, there is no possible way. The only thing we can do is prevent these attacks from occuring in the planning stages.
How?
People dont parent their children anymore. They blame society for little johny killing his teachers. Or the mind bending drugs they put him on because he was acting up in class.
You say there is no defense for these attacks or the attacks against soldiers, but we arm soldiers. Why not teachers?
Do the kids have the authority or the teachers?
__________________
NW WOLVERINES!
To the Dedicated- "The squat rack is our church. The Deadlift platform our temple"
Don't Tread On Me.
God Bless The Man That Gets In My Way...
Lift Hard. Die Strong.
Deceptiwave is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:20 AM #52
MikeM
 
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
MikeM is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
No problem, kill the teacher and you have eliminated the only possible threat. If they had a gun, great, if they didnt, great, the end result is still the same: a classroom of hostages.

Unless you're proposing allowing students to carry on campus? Surely you see the dangers of that...
Anyone who would currently plan a school shooting knows they are entering an environment where they will be initially unopposed. It's hard to imaging anyone planning the same thing knowing that there's a possibility that they might actually face opposition.
MikeM is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:22 AM #53
Deceptiwave
Built to Endure
 
Deceptiwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TITSMANIA
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM
Anyone who would currently plan a school shooting knows they are entering an environment where they will be initially unopposed. It's hard to imaging anyone planning the same thing knowing that there's a possibility that they might actually face opposition.
Agreed. If they think there is a chance they wont ge tto carry out the plan due to a teacher taking them down before the plan is set in motion, my guess is they wont try in the first place.
__________________
NW WOLVERINES!
To the Dedicated- "The squat rack is our church. The Deadlift platform our temple"
Don't Tread On Me.
God Bless The Man That Gets In My Way...
Lift Hard. Die Strong.
Deceptiwave is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:23 AM #54
Ford
☻♦♣b
 
Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin 49
Ford is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford
I dont see how you think giving teachers or faculty a gun would solve the problem. It isnt like people havent gone on rampages in places that have lots of people with guns. Here in texas in the past 2 years there have been several people who go on some rampage at a courthouse with a big gun shooting police who have but a mere 9mm to defend themselves.

Giving teachers guns wont change anything, except attackers will make sure to bring more overwhelming firepower
/thread
__________________
"Originally posted by Bronk0
Everyone put something in your sig about it...

like PORN THREAD 10/24/04: I was there.
"
Ford is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:25 AM #55
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford
/thread


Yea because thats how it works in real life not your emaginary world


Ford think about it, current stats tell us the more armed people their are in a area, the LESS likely of someone atacking. The CCW laws and stats bear this out.

SO, if schools were no longer "gun free zones" if people with CCW's could carry there too. The same apply, if someone out to do harm knows there is a damn good chance their plan is going to be upset the moment they start it, they are going to look for a easer target.

OH and I want examples please of your "big gun shootouts". The only one I know of in TX that happend recently, it was a legal CCW owner who took the guy down and only 1 life was lost.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:26 AM #56
Spiral_Out
Airplanes > Treadmills
 
Spiral_Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas, wtf Mavs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
OH yea your right so we should just sit like sheeple and go with the flow and not do a thing to try

Spiral, you win the Moron of the week award. I weep for the future with sheep like you around who have no desire or understanding how to defend themselves.
Nice work on the personal attacks, that really helps argue your point.

I have no delusions that I am 100% safe just because I have a gun. If someone gets the drop on you, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You're not superhuman because you have a gun. The only thing you can pray for is that the other guy will make a mistake, I for one will not count on that. I will seize an opporunity if it arises, but I am not stupid enough that I can fool myself into believing that I'm always in control of my surroundings. If you are that stupid, enjoy it, "ignorance is bliss."
__________________
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
He promised I would find a little
Solace and some peace of mind.
Whatever, just as long as I don't feel so
Desperate and ravenous... So weak and powerless...
Spiral_Out is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:28 AM #57
Deceptiwave
Built to Endure
 
Deceptiwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TITSMANIA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear


Yea because thats how it works in real life not your emaginary world


Ford think about it, current stats tell us the more armed people their are in a area, the LESS likely of someone atacking. The CCW laws and stats bear this out.

SO, if schools were no longer "gun free zones" if people with CCW's could carry there too. The same apply, if someone out to do harm knows there is a damn good chance their plan is going to be upset the moment they start it, they are going to look for a easer target.
Schools and banks make easy targets. Why? No guns.
If bank employees were armed, I bet there would be a lot few bank holdups.
Aply the same to a school.
__________________
NW WOLVERINES!
To the Dedicated- "The squat rack is our church. The Deadlift platform our temple"
Don't Tread On Me.
God Bless The Man That Gets In My Way...
Lift Hard. Die Strong.
Deceptiwave is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:30 AM #58
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
Nice work on the personal attacks, that really helps argue your point.

I have no delusions that I am 100% safe just because I have a gun. If someone gets the drop on you, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You're not superhuman because you have a gun. The only thing you can pray for is that the other guy will make a mistake, I for one will not count on that. I will seize an opporunity if it arises, but I am not stupid enough that I can fool myself into believing that I'm always in control of my surroundings. If you are that stupid, enjoy it, "ignorance is bliss."
OH I know I am not 100% in control of my surroundings, but one CAN do things to work the odds to ones favor. I carry my pistol where and when I can. I am alert, I don't walk with my head down, I don't walk into strange streets without looking it over first. I observe people I pass, I stay alert and observant of my environment around me.

Facts are, even if someone "gets the drop" on me. Stats say I as a well trained firearms owner, have a more than even odds chance of escapeing and/or returning fire/defending myself.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:30 AM #59
Deceptiwave
Built to Endure
 
Deceptiwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TITSMANIA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral_Out
Nice work on the personal attacks, that really helps argue your point.

I have no delusions that I am 100% safe just because I have a gun. If someone gets the drop on you, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You're not superhuman because you have a gun. The only thing you can pray for is that the other guy will make a mistake, I for one will not count on that. I will seize an opporunity if it arises, but I am not stupid enough that I can fool myself into believing that I'm always in control of my surroundings. If you are that stupid, enjoy it, "ignorance is bliss."
No, having a gun does not make you superhuman.
But I refuse to be a victim and just lay down because a meth head wants what I work for.
__________________
NW WOLVERINES!
To the Dedicated- "The squat rack is our church. The Deadlift platform our temple"
Don't Tread On Me.
God Bless The Man That Gets In My Way...
Lift Hard. Die Strong.
Deceptiwave is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:32 AM #60
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptiwave
Schools and banks make easy targets. Why? No guns.
If bank employees were armed, I bet there would be a lot few bank holdups.
Aply the same to a school.
Lets see I want to go kill as many people as I can. Do I:

a)pick a school where I know for a fact there are no firearms at

or

b)pick a office building, knowing 20%-30% of the people there by stats have and do CCW and I have no clue who does or doesnt.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:33 AM #61
Spiral_Out
Airplanes > Treadmills
 
Spiral_Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas, wtf Mavs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM
Anyone who would currently plan a school shooting knows they are entering an environment where they will be initially unopposed. It's hard to imaging anyone planning the same thing knowing that there's a possibility that they might actually face opposition.
You're not getting it. They're not going to be opposed until they have pulled their gun, and fired. By then, it's too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiwave
How?
People dont parent their children anymore. They blame society for little johny killing his teachers. Or the mind bending drugs they put him on because he was acting up in class.
You say there is no defense for these attacks or the attacks against soldiers, but we arm soldiers. Why not teachers?
Do the kids have the authority or the teachers?
As I stated before, we don't know how. If we knew, these things wouldn't still be happening. You have to accept at some point that you are at the mercy of your environment. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

We arm soldiers so they can fight back against a conventional enemy that values his own life. A gun doesn't do a damn bit of good against a suicidal maniac. If we regularly had commandos seiging our public schools, I would be all for teachers carrying guns.
__________________
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
He promised I would find a little
Solace and some peace of mind.
Whatever, just as long as I don't feel so
Desperate and ravenous... So weak and powerless...
Spiral_Out is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:34 AM #62
Ford
☻♦♣b
 
Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin 49
Ford is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
Ford think about it, current stats tell us the more armed people their are in a area, the LESS likely of someone atacking. The CCW laws and stats bear this out.

SO, if schools were no longer "gun free zones" if people with CCW's could carry there too. The same apply, if someone out to do harm knows there is a damn good chance their plan is going to be upset the moment they start it, they are going to look for a easer target.

OH and I want examples please of your "big gun shootouts". The only one I know of in TX that happend recently, it was a legal CCW owner who took the guy down and only 1 life was lost.
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2998105

guy brings an AK and a bullet proof vest...there's video out there of this too if you're in the mood to google.

If school zones are absolved of being gun free zones and staff are packing, do you not think someone bent on doing the school harm would put this into his planning? how hard is it to make a small bomb and take it to school? all your idea does is make those who would do others harm have to think bigger (and deadlier) to get what they want
__________________
"Originally posted by Bronk0
Everyone put something in your sig about it...

like PORN THREAD 10/24/04: I was there.
"
Ford is offline  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:36 AM #63
Deceptiwave
Built to Endure
 
Deceptiwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TITSMANIA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
Lets see I want to go kill as many people as I can. Do I:

a)pick a school where I know for a fact there are no firearms at

or

b)pick a office building, knowing 20%-30% of the people there by stats have and do CCW and I have no clue who does or doesnt.
c) drink bleach

I wish our company didnt have the no CC policy. There was a girl not far from our office that was stabbed iin the parking lot by here jealous boyfriend after a 5 minute long screaming argument.
If someone in the complex was CC, it could have been prevented. Not by shooting the guy, but maybe changing his mind with a slide racking.
__________________
NW WOLVERINES!
To the Dedicated- "The squat rack is our church. The Deadlift platform our temple"
Don't Tread On Me.
God Bless The Man That Gets In My Way...
Lift Hard. Die Strong.
Deceptiwave is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump