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Old 10-05-2006, 12:53 AM #1
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The True Flaw of America

It's actually pretty simple.

We can't reconcile our ideals with our history. Time and time again, we say one thing and do another. We canonize our founding fathers. We neglect to notice that masters used to be able to cast 3/5 of a vote per slave they owned. We neglect to notice our utter disregard of sovereign nations that used to inhabit the land we now live in. We participated in imperialism, in Cuba, the Philippines, and Hawaii, yet we forbade European powers from expanding in the Western Hemisphere with the Monroe Doctrine. Though we believed all men were created equal, we also believed in our own Manifest Destiny, and took on the 'burden' of showing savage Indians the light.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:54 AM #2
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Truth. We were monsters.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:10 AM #3
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So what you're saying is that we should return to the whole raping, pilaging, and slave trade thing?
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:13 AM #4
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Ideals are just that ideals. And I'm glad you realized America is not perfect, but I fail to see what we can discuss here.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:27 AM #5
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Dude, at least wait until a day after your US history class to start spitting back unadulterated facts from the textbook in the place of a real argument.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:31 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebeltilldeath3
So what you're saying is that we should return to the whole raping, pilaging, and slave trade thing?


I'm so down.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:44 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budseligsucks
It's actually pretty simple.

We can't reconcile our ideals with our history. Time and time again, we say one thing and do another. We canonize our founding fathers. We neglect to notice that masters used to be able to cast 3/5 of a vote per slave they owned. We neglect to notice our utter disregard of sovereign nations that used to inhabit the land we now live in. We participated in imperialism, in Cuba, the Philippines, and Hawaii, yet we forbade European powers from expanding in the Western Hemisphere with the Monroe Doctrine. Though we believed all men were created equal, we also believed in our own Manifest Destiny, and took on the 'burden' of showing savage Indians the light.

Thoughts?

All men are created equal - a statement that assumes so much, most notably that there is a divine reason we exist. We'll just assume that it is true for the sake of argument. Just because you are created equal doesn't mean you can't force a disequality on someone (or yourself). For example, if you are weak naturally, you can lift weights and strengthen yourself. If you are ignorant you can learn. If you are not as smart or as fast or as strong as someone else, well you can just shoot them and that tips the balance strongly in your favor.

But that's neither here nor there. Your point is entirely correct. The trouble is, the same issue exists in all countries that have existed for 200 years. A LOT has changed since then after all. To assume we would still hold onto the exact same values and ideas when the world has changed radically would be to assume people are unable to adapt to new surroundings. History is taught for only one reason, and it isn't so you don't make the same mistakes over and over again. It's taught to grant your society legitimacy. That's why American history books tell events in a different light than Japanese history books (or England's or Canada's etc.). The purpose of history is to make you think your society is greater than it's current living generations.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:56 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebeltilldeath3
So what you're saying is that we should return to the whole raping, pilaging, and slave trade thing?
you should at least TRY raping someone, dont bash it until you try it.
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:31 AM #9
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No one is created equal.

Everyone is born with specific traits that have utility in their use, and some of their traits are valued by society more.

We like to think that everyone is created equal in some laughable PC way, but like I said above it is entirely false.

Okay, so you are in your 11th grade US History class, and you went over the founding of the nation, and now you just got to the Mexican American War There is a lot more dirt past that, and the stuff that caused all this "War on Terror" is really interesting. Good luck, and don't let your teacher indoctrinate you with opinion.
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:02 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Impulses
No one is created equal.

Everyone is born with specific traits that have utility in their use, and some of their traits are valued by society more.

We like to think that everyone is created equal in some laughable PC way, but like I said above it is entirely false.

Okay, so you are in your 11th grade US History class, and you went over the founding of the nation, and now you just got to the Mexican American War There is a lot more dirt past that, and the stuff that caused all this "War on Terror" is really interesting. Good luck, and don't let your teacher indoctrinate you with opinion.
I specifically enjoy the Iraq Iran weapons for oil double dealing. We ****ed them over good.
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It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
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on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:10 AM #11
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Don't forget Japanese internment. They never teach that one in school....
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:32 PM #12
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Funny. I think the freshmen just finished the japanese internment chapter up.


"No one is created equal.

Everyone is born with specific traits that have utility in their use, and some of their traits are valued by society more"

^finally someone else that isnt afraid to admit it.
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:33 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutcivnI
Dude, at least wait until a day after your US history class to start spitting back unadulterated facts from the textbook in the place of a real argument.
Hahaha.

I thought exactley that. In my APUSH class, we've gone over those things, we did manifest destiny today.
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:39 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaInTbAlLeRkId253
Funny. I think the freshmen just finished the japanese internment chapter up.
If you're referring to me, then you're incorrect. I haven't taken a history course in several years.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:18 PM #15
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I would personally like to apologize for everything America has done wrong...











...
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:47 PM #16
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I would personally like to apologize for everything America has done wrong...











...
Reparations pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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I can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all
It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
discipline. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion
on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:49 PM #17
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All great nations went through this phase. Ours just happened recently, last 200 years opposed to 800-1000 like most other nations.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:52 PM #18
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Ideals are just that ideals. And I'm glad you realized America is not perfect, but I fail to see what we can discuss here.
.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:53 PM #19
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Reparations pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:21 PM #20
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Reparations pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I want my land back. East Berlin that is.
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:22 PM #21
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Don't forget Japanese internment. They never teach that one in school....
or how about the native alaskan internment, bet you didnt know that even happened.
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