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Old 10-02-2006, 05:16 AM #43
Haga652001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berry_wendel
they are not entitled to certain rights, but they do have natural rights
no any person charged ON US soil, charged with a crime is gareenteed the same rights as a citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
what praytell are "natural" rights?

The right to plot the murder of thousands?
The right to fly a plane into a building?
Oh, mabey the right to force their religion on others?




the US is for its citizens, thats it.

you know its the ignorant xenophobic *******s like you that cause them to do that **** to us right?
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:13 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haga652001
you know its the ignorant xenophobic *******s like you that cause them to do that **** to us right?
Don't be a dipwad. I know its hard for you to have any kind of IQ what so ever but atleast TRY ok? How is it xenophobic for me to say that citizen rights should be only for US citizens? If I go to england I don't expect to be treeted like a english citizen, if I travel to canada I don't expect to be treeted as one of their citizens. I am an american, if I am in someone elses land and break their laws, I fully expect the weight of the worst they can do to come down on me. That, is just how the world SHOULD work.
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A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:30 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haga652001
you know its the ignorant xenophobic *******s like you that cause them to do that **** to us right?
what ignorant xenophobic act did the US do to bring on 9/11?
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Old 10-02-2006, 04:28 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haga652001
the Great thing about this country is that everyone, citizen or not, is equally protected under the law and therefore afforded the same rights.

Thats all good and nice. But to be honest, no nation in history has EVER treated citizens the same as non citizens. thats why we make the distinction. there should be PERKS for being a citizen. that breeds allegiance to the mother country.
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Old 10-02-2006, 04:29 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hylen11
what ignorant xenophobic act did the US do to bring on 9/11?

wow... IGNORANCE!!!

why dont you go and research that on your own. You really ought not to display your own ignorance to prove some kind of moronic point. It might seem great in your head, but just because you dont know something doesn't mean it ain't there. It just means you're stupid.
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:24 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
Don't be a dipwad. I know its hard for you to have any kind of IQ what so ever but atleast TRY ok? How is it xenophobic for me to say that citizen rights should be only for US citizens? If I go to england I don't expect to be treeted like a english citizen, if I travel to canada I don't expect to be treeted as one of their citizens. I am an american, if I am in someone elses land and break their laws, I fully expect the weight of the worst they can do to come down on me. That, is just how the world SHOULD work.
um you should be treated like a humyn being like..u know...everywhere?

thats why there are things like the ICC, geneva convention, and basically all humyn rights advocate institutions to ensure that humyn beings be treated as individuals with rights and to ensure justice to those who violate these rights.

remember this:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men* are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


thats all men*...not just united states citizens.
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:25 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
Don't be a dipwad. I know its hard for you to have any kind of IQ what so ever but atleast TRY ok? How is it xenophobic for me to say that citizen rights should be only for US citizens? If I go to england I don't expect to be treeted like a english citizen, if I travel to canada I don't expect to be treeted as one of their citizens. I am an american, if I am in someone elses land and break their laws, I fully expect the weight of the worst they can do to come down on me. That, is just how the world SHOULD work.

so its okay for a English man to come to America, be accused of a terrorist type act, Have his Miranda Rights suspended, Have his IV, V, and VI ammendment rights suspended, be tortured into confessing, and then be executed?

Im Glad I don't live in your riechland Overbear.
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:44 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haga652001
so its okay for a English man to come to America, be accused of a terrorist type act, Have his Miranda Rights suspended, Have his IV, V, and VI ammendment rights suspended, be tortured into confessing, and then be executed?

Im Glad I don't live in your riechland Overbear.
You can't suspend what they shouldn't be intitled to in the first place!
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A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

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Old 10-02-2006, 05:58 PM #51
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and who the **** are you to determine whether or not a person has rights?
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:03 PM #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
You can't suspend what they shouldn't be intitled to in the first place!
Some people believe that extending the American system is a positive strategy that holds both economic and social boons, and in doing so would be the most American way. Some people though.
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:36 PM #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
You can't suspend what they shouldn't be intitled to in the first place!

I see that I am arguing with a 4 year old...
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Old 10-02-2006, 08:23 PM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haga652001
I see that I am arguing with a 4 year old...
No, your arguing with someone who has d the ability to see thru the cloud of lies the liberal media and the so called "hippy" generation has shoved down all our throats in the name of "PC"
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

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Old 10-02-2006, 09:10 PM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSpy11
FALSE. You need to read a bit more closely.

From HR. 6166:

"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."

Does a NON-citizen have any "allegiance" to the U.S.A.? NO! Who is the enemy? Anyone who doesn't agree with the government! Does that sound like freedom?

Also there are opinion articles in both the LA and NY Times that agreeingly state that this legislation applys to citizens if so desired by the government. People held under this law have no access to legal rights.

It's official: We now live in a dictatorship. Our Republic is GONE. There is no way anyone can say otherwise. This isn't a smiley on the list that displays how infuriated I am. It's even more disturbing to see the multitudes of sheeple blindly allow their freedoms to be destroyed. Enjoy your prison planet. You've earned it.
Correct. A lot of this bill is aimed at American Citizens
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:23 PM #56
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I would like to first say that once you are a CONVICTED terrorist, I don't give two ounces of monkey piss what the government does to you. That goes for any similar crime, coldblooded homicide, sexual assault, whatever. They can tear you a new ******* or bolt your nuts to the floor, light the room on fire, and give you a rusty coffee can lid for all I care. HOWEVER... US law says that all suspects are innocent until proven guilty... for those of you who are a bit slow, that means that the prosecutor must prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that the defendant is guilty. As badly as I want to see justice dealt, too often have men been wrongly imprisoned and penalized. EVERY human being should have the right to not be penalized for **** they didn't do... and not a single one of you can argue with that.
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:26 PM #57
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tru dat.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:48 PM #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaRama
wow... IGNORANCE!!!

why dont you go and research that on your own. You really ought not to display your own ignorance to prove some kind of moronic point. It might seem great in your head, but just because you dont know something doesn't mean it ain't there. It just means you're stupid.
na-uhh your stupid. away from the playground we use real points.

we are hated because we support the nation of Israel and peace and stability in the middle east, stability being the overall goal of iraq. i see reasons for terrorist hatred now because of iraq problems but pre-9/11 and iraq and afghanistan i dont see anything except blind hate. its hatred of western ideas and morals.
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:44 PM #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear
No, your arguing with someone who has d the ability to see thru the cloud of lies the liberal media and the so called "hippy" generation has shoved down all our throats in the name of "PC"



Have you ever seen the Movie the Amistad?
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:51 PM #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaRama
wow... IGNORANCE!!!

why dont you go and research that on your own. You really ought not to display your own ignorance to prove some kind of moronic point. It might seem great in your head, but just because you dont know something doesn't mean it ain't there. It just means you're stupid.
Zip it, really. It doesn't matter if you get pissed off about something, it's no excuse to kill a few thousand good old boys. Stop trying to act like 9/11 is amerca's fault and admit that theres just bad people in the world.
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:35 PM #61
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Originally Posted by Swerve22
Zip it, really. It doesn't matter if you get pissed off about something, it's no excuse to kill a few thousand good old boys. Stop trying to act like 9/11 is amerca's fault and admit that theres just bad people in the world.
by your logic we should have never invaded Japan or Afganistan.

after all it doesn't matter if your pissed off about something its no excuse to kill a few thousand good ole boys.
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:56 PM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22
Zip it, really. It doesn't matter if you get pissed off about something, it's no excuse to kill a few thousand good old boys. Stop trying to act like 9/11 is amerca's fault and admit that theres just bad people in the world.
A few thousand huh? No how many israel and america have killed so far? And dont give me the whole "they werent targeting civilians" because the point is there killing them, and at a remarkable rate
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:47 AM #63
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This is unbelieveable...

Okay, the main argument I hear supporting these bills is that American citizens are unaffected by this, and that we need to go after the bad people, because that's what terrorists are.

First of all, all rational people actually quoting the text of the bills have proven that this affects American civilians, so that argument is moot.

Remember how big a deal it was, looking for WMDs in Iraq, and how there turned out to be none? For the rest of the world, there is no doubt where weapons of mass destruction are. Right in the United States. We literally have enough nukes to destroy the surface of the Moon and the Earth several times. Isn't that a reason to at least be wary of the United States?

As to the argument that this bill will help defend us, I simply ask this: How? If brought to trial, if they are guilty, the terrorists have such an unbelieveably slim chance of being innocent, due to our prior prejudices. This bill will only increase resentment of America around the world, ultimately making us less safe
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