[screamin_nuts]

noncitizens or not, the united states federal government ESPECIALLY the executive branch does not have the authority to detain "suspects" indeterminently without a reasonable cause or a trial to determine whether or not that person is guilty of that crime. well holy ****! 10 prisoners out of the 700 occupants in gitmo have actually been charged with something while the rest lay imprisoned indeterminently. you would think this would be ok if the governemtn was detaining people who DO commit serious crimes, but the fact is our government (especially now since they are ennacting this legislation) is detaining just about everyone that constitutes as a threat to our nation, provided that they "purposefully or materially support hostilities against the US"(HOW MOTHER****ING AMBIGIOUS IS THIS!!!). How is this supposed to be any good towards showing how democracy can work and prevail when our govt cannot even fully grasp that concept themselves . and guess what? WE CAN FIGHT TERRORISM WITHOUT BEING STRIPPED OF OUR CIVIL RIGHT. and with this bill we are further fractioning our selves from the rest of the world to the point where we are above not only our mother****ing laws but the laws of other nations.

how do you honestly think you can justify this law



and to say we are detaining the right people is teh bulschitz

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/21/wo...erland&emc=rss

[Ghostfire (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Overbear

non citizens do NOT deserve our rights or protections PERIOD.

Does this statement go for the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan as well? The president says all human life deserves our rights, protections and freedoms. One of you is lying...

[agentdowell]

Did you guys even read the law?

I am totally proBush from now on. They ain't sendin' my *** to gitmo. I'm already on the airline watch list.

[screamin_nuts]

did anyone catch that lil liner by bush to katie couric?

"the hardest part of my job is tying iraq to 9/11"


ZING!

[Ghostfire (Banned)]

Originally Posted by agentdowell

I am totally proBush from now on.

I can just see your future headstone now:

Here lies Agent Dowell
He was Pro-Bush
to the very end

[agentdowell]

Originally Posted by Ghostfire

I can just see your future headstone now:

Here lies Agent Dowell
He was Pro-Bush
to the very end

What?! Why? No way!

And we're all friends here, you can drop my title.

[screamin_nuts]

**** that man..ill openly protest..thats what i did last thursday at a antiwar ralley by mcclintock for cali gov.

[26bps]

I like McClintock.

[screamin_nuts]

hes hella chill in person...he stands for the right things when it comes to domestic policy.

[26bps]

I absolutely <3 his population/inflation/spending equation.

[Gun4Hire17]

ok, that that whole thing comes down to is this,

if you're a terrorist, then you cannot be protected by AMERICAN JUDICIAL COURTS simply because you arent protected by AMERICAN RIGHTS UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION.

you're foreign, your a suspected or proven terrorist, you have no rights that are protected under the US constitution because those rights are reserved for the American citizen.

however, if you're an american citizen and you are being questioned of treason, then thats a different story, and its much harder to simply kill the person who commited treason, cuz hes still protected under the US constitution.

[Indi86]

The problem with all of this, of course, is that they can call whomever they want a terrorist and disappear them. That leaves a distinctive totalitarian taste in my mouth. The actually wrote into the law that it can't be challenged.

The whole thing is blatantly unconstitutional, and even if legal wrangling lets them escape that, it's against the very intent of the creators of the constitution.

[I love Impulses]

I love shifts to tyranny during wartime. Go Lincoln!

Let's just hope this gets repealed after we have our little wartime party.

[AR55]

Originally Posted by I love Impulses

Let's just hope this gets repealed after we have our little wartime party.

Very unlikely. Once you give them power, they won't take it back.

[I love Impulses]

Originally Posted by AR55

Very unlikely. Once you give them power, they won't take it back.

Historically we shift right then slide back to the left, but your point is true if we are in war consistantly then the balancing out effect won't happen and we will be in tyranny eventually.

[Gun4Hire17]

Originally Posted by Indi86

The whole thing is blatantly unconstitutional, and even if legal wrangling lets them escape that, it's against the very intent of the creators of the constitution.

well, since its blantantly unconstitutional and a direct threat to our rights protected by the american government, then the LIBERAL judicial court will overule it and declare it unconstitutional. dont you just love how the checks and ballance system works which was made by the creators of the constitution? but since they are not, then they must not see a problem with the republican view on it and must not see it as tyrannical.

Originally Posted by I Love Impulses

I love shifts to tyranny during wartime. Go Lincoln!

Let's just hope this gets repealed after we have our little wartime party.

censorship of indivual liberties, such as free speach, has always existed during wartime.

going back to John Adams in 1798 during the "Quasi War" with france, there was the Alien and Sedition act

during WWI, Wilson reinstated the Sedition act in 1917 along with the Espionage act.

during WWII, FDR created the "fighting words doctorine"

during the Vietnam war LBJ instated similar acts...
however, what was different this time was the the conservative leaning Supreme Court ruled to protect free speach during war time which became known as the Imminent Lawless Action Test which meant that speech must cause immediate illegal acts for the speech to be considered illegal.

since that rulling has not be overuled, you could say that you're rights and freedoms are more at liberty then say what your grandparents, or you're great grandparents had during wartime.

[Bobeo]

I find this quote appropriate:

"When urgent considerations of teh public safety require compromise with the normal prinicples constraining law enforcement, the normal principles may have to bend. The Constitution is not a suicide pact." - Justice Robert Jackson

[hylen11]

the government is the people of the US. its not seperate from the people, when things begin to get sketchy, the media, which is not run by the government, will report the sketchiness. then, as congress adapts to the views of the people, along with the executive every 4 years things will change.
After 9/11, the media "scared" us into becoming very conservative and giving the government almost the rights a society gives a police man to make the right decision to keep us safe.
this thread is jumping to conclusions, have some faith in the US.

[agentdowell]

Originally Posted by Gun4Hire17

ok, that that whole thing comes down to is this,

if you're a terrorist, then you cannot be protected by AMERICAN JUDICIAL COURTS simply because you arent protected by AMERICAN RIGHTS UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION.

you're foreign, your a suspected or proven terrorist, you have no rights that are protected under the US constitution because those rights are reserved for the American citizen.

however, if you're an american citizen and you are being questioned of treason, then thats a different story, and its much harder to simply kill the person who commited treason, cuz hes still protected under the US constitution.

According to the government, I am a suspected terrorist because I happen to share a name with an individual involved in high levels of the IRA (even though they have since disarmed). The fact that I lived in Dublin for a year and made trips to Belfast does not help the situation. I am NOT a terrorist. I am an American citizen. According to you however, I have no rights because Washington THINKS I am. You can go straight to hell with your intolerance.

[xXthriceXegoXx]

Originally Posted by Overbear

what praytell are "natural" rights?

The right to plot the murder of thousands?
The right to fly a plane into a building?
Oh, mabey the right to force their religion on others?




the US is for its citizens, thats it.

QFTMFTB!!!!!

[screamin_nuts]

astonished.