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Old 09-13-2006, 02:22 PM #43
brasseagle21
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how is this design truley bob's own? Yes, I guess it is a good idea but if you look at the tippmann its the same thing except it has air controlled ram....
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:33 PM #44
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The tippman doesn't have the connecting rod down the centre, and isn't a balanced poppet set up.
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:35 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manike
The tippman doesn't have the connecting rod down the centre, and isn't a balanced poppet set up.
and everything about the egos internals arent the same as the timmy's. the point Im trying to make is that its the same basic design.
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:46 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manike
The tippman doesn't have the connecting rod down the centre, and isn't a balanced poppet set up.
the tippmann is also cheap.

i like this design the tippmann always had a cool design to me but this is just the high end version i would have expected tippmann to come out with this as a highend gun before bob did but good job to him considering i never really liked timmys but i think i want this gun
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:49 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brasseagle21
and everything about the egos internals arent the same as the timmy's. the point Im trying to make is that its the same basic design.
How different does it have to be to be considered different? A slice of bologna and a Ruth's Chris filet are both meat, but I would guess those that have tried each find them to be very different.
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:53 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKW
How different does it have to be to be considered different? A slice of bologna and a Ruth's Chris filet are both meat, but I would guess those that have tried each, find them to be very different.

Im just saying this becuase everyone seems to think its a totally new design when its actully just a newer better vesion of something.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:03 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manike
The tippman doesn't have the connecting rod down the centre, and isn't a balanced poppet set up.

Simon I may be wrong.. but wasnt there an early inline blow back that had it center line?

Either way... Im digging the set up of this gun..
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:16 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manike
Nice work, a little bit of a hack job , but you got it.
Holy ****, my prediction was kinda right.....
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:19 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel411
Simon I may be wrong.. but wasnt there an early inline blow back that had it center line?
Really? That would be news to me. I'd like to see it though if you can dig it up.

Brasseagle, I wasn't denying the similarities, just trying to point out the differences.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:26 PM #52
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The similiarities to some mid-90's pump guns is also obvious, pictures of what I mean in a few minutes. Looks like a great overall design job....




+100 E-Points if you can name the pump marker, the company is still one of the largest paintball companies today. Centering rod goes up through striker/sear part and then through voodoo magic opens the valve (rear) and fires the marker.


edit: brasseagle, your totally right, the Intimidator marker was an adaptation of sorts, a combintation of Electro-Pneumatic design with Blowback Spyder design, this design builds upon the Intimidator marker, and adapts elements of single tube blowback guns, such as the Tippmann 98

Last edited by electraman7 : 09-13-2006 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:47 PM #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electraman7
The similiarities to some mid-90's pump guns is also obvious, pictures of what I mean in a few minutes. Looks like a great overall design job....




+100 E-Points if you can name the pump marker, the company is still one of the largest paintball companies today. Centering rod goes up through striker/sear part and then through voodoo magic opens the valve (rear) and fires the marker.


edit: brasseagle, your totally right, the Intimidator marker was an adaptation of sorts, a combintation of Electro-Pneumatic design with Blowback Spyder design, this design builds upon the Intimidator marker, and adapts elements of single tube blowback guns, such as the Tippmann 98

im going to guess Tippman SL68
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:56 PM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electraman7
The similiarities to some mid-90's pump guns is also obvious, pictures of what I mean in a few minutes. Looks like a great overall design job....




+100 E-Points if you can name the pump marker, the company is still one of the largest paintball companies today. Centering rod goes up through striker/sear part and then through voodoo magic opens the valve (rear) and fires the marker.
I don't believe that works the same way. The 'centering rod' as you call it is actually a powertube and gas comes through it from the valve at the rear when the hammer flies backwards and strikes the valve at the back of the gun. That rod is NOT connected to the bolt at all.

It was a very common pump system in use by many guns, the phantom, grey ghost etc. all working this way.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:11 PM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peegee
nice implimentation of a tippman valve if you remember the off the break people were talking about bringing a gun out it worked just like this.

The OTB Advent was going to be a spool gun
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:16 PM #56
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if this has been said before im sorry, but bob just makes good guns better. the classic timmy was a spyder like marker, just a hell of a lot better. this shares some similarities with the tippman, just a hell of a lot better.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:28 PM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manike
I don't believe that works the same way. The 'centering rod' as you call it is actually a powertube and gas comes through it from the valve at the rear when the hammer flies backwards and strikes the valve at the back of the gun. That rod is NOT connected to the bolt at all.

It was a very common pump system in use by many guns, the phantom, grey ghost etc. all working this way.
DAMN IT!

Your right, thats how the voodoo works... That makes me wonder even further why you couldnt incorporate that design into and even smaller single tube EP or blowback gun..... I will sleep on it even more.....

Well, at least my original thoughts on how it worked are correct, expanding and borrowing on the Tippmann single tube design, and turning it EP.


Oh, and the answer: Kingman Hammer, I own the last known one with all original materials still intact and not damaged, got it NIB, framed the manuals and warranty card, and put the box in a safe place, only tinkering with the gun occassionally... it even still had the red tag around the trigger saying be sure to wear shooting goggles....
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:36 PM #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electraman7
DAMN IT!
Oh, and the answer: Kingman Hammer, I own the last known one with all original materials still intact and not damaged, got it NIB, framed the manuals and warranty card, and put the box in a safe place, only tinkering with the gun occassionally... it even still had the red tag around the trigger saying be sure to wear shooting goggles....
Funny, I took an old Hammer apart to rebuild and relube this week. If my memory serves me correctly, Kingman re-released the Hammer as the "NEW Hammer" I saw some NIB on Ebay.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:02 PM #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calin

New competition. Anyone that doesn't have one or have seen these in life that is able to describe how they think it works and it is actually close to how it really works gets kudos points.
if it hasnt been said already, its just like a tippmann e-bolt
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Old 09-14-2006, 08:38 AM #60
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The "New" Hammer debuted in 1996 I believe, and there arent any NIB "New" Hammers either to my knowledge.
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Old 09-14-2006, 11:17 AM #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manike
The tippman doesn't have the connecting rod down the centre, and isn't a balanced poppet set up.

How is the poppet balanced? Bear in mind, all I have for reference with this are the pictures posted in this thread. Or is my thinking of balanced as having forces acting in each direction to offset the net force making actuation of the valve easier (like the MQ or air assisted valves) not valid in this case, and it just means something else?
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Old 09-14-2006, 11:41 AM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y0da900
How is the poppet balanced? Bear in mind, all I have for reference with this are the pictures posted in this thread. Or is my thinking of balanced as having forces acting in each direction to offset the net force making actuation of the valve easier (like the MQ or air assisted valves) not valid in this case, and it just means something else?

The poppet assembly is enclosed and sealed with a oring. The air is pushing the opposite direction of the poppet by acting against the oring. Offsetting alot of the force being generated on the poppet.
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Old 09-14-2006, 12:20 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper Machinist
The poppet assembly is enclosed and sealed with a oring. The air is pushing the opposite direction of the poppet by acting against the oring. Offsetting alot of the force being generated on the poppet.

So the internal diagram on the quick start manual is just of very deceptive scale, and the o-ring sealing the poppet assembly (circled in green) is not as compressed as shown, and has enough surface area for it to help balance the valve? Because at least in that diagram, and in the photos of the poppet in the first post, it definitely doesnt seem to be enough to make much of a difference.

Wouldn't the rear portion of the poppet assembly being iolated from the pressure make a much larger difference than pressure acting on what little surface area that o-ring has exposed to it?
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