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Old 09-01-2006, 11:17 PM #1
Ri0T
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Any SoCal Timmy owners want to be a Guinea Pig?

Hey SoCal Timmy owners, I was looking to see if any of you would be interested in using your marker as a guinea pig for a new trigger mod that I've designed. No, I'm not some kid who just wants to drill a hole in your beautiful gun. I know what I'm talking about, and was close to finishing my ME degree when I got married and stopped going to school when my wife started going back.

The mod would only require 2 holes to be drilled, and both would be underneath the grips. If more than one person replies, machine shop/mill access/experience would be preferred.

This mod should enable you to obtain much better ROFs in semi, without being illegal or causing bounce.

If you are interested, please reply and PM me for other contact info.

Mods, since I'm looking specifically for Timmy owners, I thought this would be OK to post here. I'm not soliciting, I'm looking for volunteers. However, I do apologize if this is inappropriate, and understand that you'll move it.

You can also catch me on AIM, SN: JRi0T68

Last edited by Ri0T : 09-02-2006 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:54 PM #2
BennyTB
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well i'm not not socal but what would this mod do?
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:58 PM #3
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I'm socal, but I'm far kinda. I have an 06 timmy and have friends whose machines I could use to drill/mill.

let me know
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:58 PM #4
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I'm a little hesitant to state the exact workings until I've seen it tested on an actual marker. If my own project marker was in a functioning state, I'd just install it there. However, this part, which I've dubbed the SCATR system, is just about ready for install as a proof of concept. No, internally, it's not pretty or a clean package. If someone guesses the acronym, then I'll post more on the inner workings.
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:20 AM #5
mastamuffin
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ill ask my friend, he just bought a alias. We play at hollywoodsports, and oca
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:39 AM #6
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Solenoid C? Air Trigger Return. That's all I can think of.
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:46 AM #7
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Hehe, the S is not solenoid, the A is not air. The R is not return, but the T is Trigger. lol
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:49 AM #8
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So close.....
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:51 AM #9
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ic, SCATR, sensitive coordination automatic trigger response? Did i hit any words? haha, come on quit with the game!
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Old 09-02-2006, 01:20 AM #10
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Hehe, close. I'll give it 'til tomorrow. Seeing people guess is intriguing.

But, you've got the A for Assisted and T for Trigger. R is for Response is close, and was my second choice.
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Old 09-02-2006, 09:08 AM #11
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So Cal Assisted Trigger Return?

am i right? I be i am cause im awesome...
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Old 09-02-2006, 09:11 AM #12
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il give it a try. tell me what to do
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Old 09-02-2006, 11:02 PM #13
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Oiva, it's so much a mod that I could tell you how to do, but an upgrade I've designed that I'm looking to test out on a few locals before I pursue the possibilities of manufacturing/marketing it.
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Old 09-02-2006, 11:15 PM #14
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i am intrigued....subscribed
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Old 09-02-2006, 11:34 PM #15
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i wouold try it but live no where near ca. some one should try this and see if it works. i might wanna try it if its something good for my timmy. always willing to try new things.
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Old 09-03-2006, 12:37 AM #16
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I've got a couple of interested people so far, so it looks like we should definitely be able to see if my theories are correct.

Of course, I'll need to see the specific section of the NPPL rule book that covers trigger bounce, to make sure that it cannot violate any rules.

To uncover some of the mystery, SCATR - Spring Controlled Assisted Trigger Reflex.

I used the word reflex rather than response or reactivity, etc. because the system should, in theory, promote the user's finger to actually pull the trigger. Think about the doctor testing your reflexes. Now, try hitting your finger right on the muscles with a pen or something. If you are already applying slight pressure in the direction of the pen, you should notice that your finger actually pulls against the pen. It's a natural reflex.

The SCATR system uses a separate spring to return the trigger than what is used for the pull resistance. My initial designs did use air to return the trigger, but I found this to be less adjustable. With a spring, if the trigger is too responsive and causes bounce, or refs to get mad, you can just adjust the spring to reduce the effect. Without getting into specific design aspects, this should be an easy install, as soon as I make a few modifications for newer Timmy frames. My GZ frame for my other project has much different internal dimensions, but it shouldn't be a problem. I should also be able to make it fit on just about any marker, though other guns may have to have a hole tapped into the body.

Comments and criticism are always encouraged. Does anyone know what NPPL rules state specifically regarding trigger bounce?
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Old 09-03-2006, 02:02 AM #17
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I did a Ctrl+F on the NPPL rulebook and the only thing that talked about trigger bounce (or any bounce) was:

Quote:
11.02 Marker Inspection: Players will surrender their markers to the Chrono-Ref who will inspect it for the following:
(2) Electronic Parts Locked: Shooting modes of electronic markers may not be adjusted on the field as to allow dwell, debounce, trigger bounce, or ramping.
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Old 09-03-2006, 02:48 AM #18
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If the trigger returns with more force than it takes to pull it youare asking for runaway bounce.

Period.
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Old 09-03-2006, 01:31 PM #19
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oh and you know there are no muscles in your fingers (Woo discorvery channel )
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:48 PM #20
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I stated the system simply, but when tuned properly, it should not cause additional shots on its own. Now, if you're playing w/o a spring and an extremely short pull, then yes, it may cause bounce. However, the system is completely adjustable. The trigger could return with the same amount of force, it could also return with as much force as you can get from a spring the size it needs to be, which should be enough to cause significant benefit. It's not like I'd have a spring a spring or rubber bumper in front of the trigger to cause the bounce. The return force of the trigger will be adjustable, thus keeping the trigger from bouncing off the frame.

As with any initial design, there ARE going to be problems. However, I've spent enough time working things out, playing devil's advocate, planning for possible points of failure, that the only hurdle that should be a real problem is fitting it in the frame with minimal modification.

As for the human anatomy, I stated things simply, so as not to confuse those who may be younger/less educated.

SpyderOWNAGE - Thanks for the info. Hmm... I may have to find the right person to email regarding this. I can't seem to find any place that properly defines trigger bounce according to offical rule.

Last edited by Ri0T : 09-03-2006 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:44 PM #21
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From the 2006 NPPL rulebook

"6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi auto or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull."

So, it sounds like as long as the trigger doesn't recoil off the frame, the SCATR system should be perfectly legal. We'll just have to see how testing goes.
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