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Old 01-12-2003, 06:54 PM #1
automagsrule
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Rainmaker vs. The World

So. we've heard all the gun vs guns out there: cocker vs mag, tippmann vs spyder, angel vs timmy, etc. Then of course comes up the less intelligent ones such as the one I'm talking about now: Brass Eagle vs. the world. I admit that some brass eagle products are trash, but you get what you pay for. There is, however, one brass eagle product that stands out. The Rainmaker, quite possibly the only high quality Brass Eagle product made after '96 (when BE was sold to a new owner). For some reason though, the rainmaker could never shake off the label of it's owner, even now after discontinuation, and every rainmaker around is heavily modified. All of us BE advocates have heard the usual rainmaker slander: slow, inaccurate, chops, heavy, loud, etc.

well, i say its time to at least attempt to set the record straight.

the rainmaker has many good qualities about it that every one flaming it seems to advoid or lies about completely. they are:
  • cannot chop(pneumatics are too easy on the paint)
  • cool look (IMO)
  • loud
  • tinkers' dream
  • cheapest completely electro on the market

Now, i invite anyone who disagrees with me to post their FACTS that prove me wrong. back up your stuff and you will succeed in making the rainmaker look bad. if not, you will succeed in making yourself look like a fool.

If anyone wishes to contradict anything i have put in my list, just tell me to present facts.

keep it civil guys, We're just debating over whether or not the rainmaker is garbage.
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Old 01-13-2003, 02:07 PM #2
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two small quarrels...

1) they can chop. trust me, ive done it before. its no less likly than an Angel, Impy, Bushy, COCKER, etc

2) they arnt cheap much longer because there are no more left at BE...therefor no more $100 cheapos
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Old 01-13-2003, 06:36 PM #3
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Rainmaker vs World...

Actually, I'll agree with automags on the chopping part.
Yes, I'm sure a RM can chop if its hits the ball just right, but I've never been able to do it with my GaleForce @ 13bps at F/A.
At that speed, it skips every 5-6 shots, and occationaly makes a click noise, which I assume is a pinch (where the hammer was not released), but no chops.

If you do this with a stock Cocker, it will slice a ball. However, many cocker owners go for a new ram, and adjustable Rock reg, so they can turn it down to the point where it will pinch instead of chop.

That said, I think that the reason my RM doesnt chop is the stock LPR I use. It runs at a very low pressure. Many RM owners get an aftermarket LPR, and CRANK UP the pressure. This may solve cycling-related problems, but I think it kills the RM's anti-chop ability. This was the idea behind the Vector- Setting the LPR so low that it hardly ever chops, but still fast enough to cycle properly. Obviously, the flaw in the RM is that the bolt is NOT anti-kink.. but the principle is sound. I think the open-bolt design also helps as well.

Likewise, all other single-ram electros use the ram to directly open the valve, instead of a hammer, so it also needs a relatively high pressure LPR. Thats why they NEED an ACE to prevent chopping.

I think we all agree the stock RM is ugly. Zipties up front, and horizontal regs on the back..... but that doesnt effect functionality. At least it sets you apart from the usual "mass produced" so-called custom cockers and angels.

The RM is certainly more reliable then the AC because of the timing issues, but it does have its own problems with kinked wires/hose and wear, though can be easily solved. Even though you don't see alot of aftermarket parts for the RM, nearlly all the parts have 'common' equivilents.

But, the bottom line is they don't make them anymore, and probobly never will. BE did the smart thing, and is selling "high-end" guns through a different name. New RMs will probobly float around EBay for $150 for another few months, but they will eventually dry up. They are still a great deal at that price, but would not recommend one to a newbie since it would require him to learn how the gun works..... in case something breaks.

Lots of parrallels to the Vector- Great gun, same design, poor marketing, both loud, never popular. Both guns probobly never even made a profit.

As for the trolls, every gun gets bashed at PBN. Some people just have to much free time. Which means they are probobly the worst players since they think a pretty anno job is more important then actual skill.

Nick
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Old 01-20-2003, 01:51 PM #4
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i have had some double feeding issues, but have yet to fix them as my local paint supplier has old diablo that has been sitting in the store for months. this was a rather large dissapointment as i broke about every ball that entered the gun. i am going to trust the vast majority of everybody here and say that it was probubly the paint, and it will stave off any personal dissapointment at the advent of this situation.
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Old 01-20-2003, 04:40 PM #5
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double feeding = ball detent. Adjust that little metal wire on the side of the gun.
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Old 01-23-2003, 01:05 PM #6
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i shot them before and they chop alot
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:33 PM #7
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How much is "alot"?

I think its fair to say that the RM chops the least out of any factory non-ACE marker ever made, with the Vector a close 2nd.

The detent does seem to be a weak link though. If not adjusted right, it will either double-feed, or slice a ball.

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Old 01-24-2003, 10:05 AM #8
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a finely tuned RM should not chop. Kevmasters RM was not finely tuned, hence the reason it chopped. My RM on the other hand is finely tuned and has gone 20,000 pballs with out a chop many many times.
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Old 01-24-2003, 09:04 PM #9
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tribals are cheaper
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Old 01-26-2003, 03:20 AM #10
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i disagree. mayhems are least chopping non-ace markers (as in they NEVER) but r/ms dont chop often.

hey jawz, i'll give you 4 days to redeem yourself. back up your info. I'll be happy to back up my FACTS that r/ms rarely chop if you just ask. you don't give some proof like define a technical flaw, show a video of a TUNED r/m (an out of the box a/c will chop a lot too) chopping.
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Old 01-26-2003, 07:51 AM #11
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Jawz aint commin back buddy...and if he does...he aint gunna be defending himself with facts....losers/flamers never do that
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Old 01-26-2003, 11:52 AM #12
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Well, I've never actually used a Mayhem, so you may be right.

I've "heard" that Mayhem/Nova/Matrix style guns tend to chop at high feed rates... but that was on PBReview... and nobody would mistake PBReview as an accurate, unbiased source of information.

They definetly use a low pressure for the pneumatics, though it is actually higher then the RM pneumatics... and its the low pressure that prevent chops.
So I don't know.
I DO know the Mayhem is ugly... even uglier then the stock RM... but thats my opinion.

I'm tempted to get one though... just because nobody else has one. (The same reason I picked up a RM!!).

NIck
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Old 01-26-2003, 06:19 PM #13
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i got a mayhem 2. your too late.


when finely tuned, I got mine running at ~60 psi. Just sand a few parts to a round and you will get no chops.


about the ugly thing: thats your opion, and they are compact like mags.
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Old 01-28-2003, 09:02 AM #14
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rm's don't chop when set up right. but they will from time to time break a ball in the barrel which most people think is a chop. mostly due to a weak spot ib the ball that couldn't take the air hit. if you do get a chop on an rm it make a complete mess of your hopper. and that very rare. but do's happen sometimes. but it is all fixable
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Old 01-31-2003, 01:04 AM #15
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Being a cocker owner I would like to clarify a couple of things without "flaming" on RM's
Quote:
The RM is certainly more reliable then the AC because of the timing issues.
NOT quite correct.
once timed a cocker usually doesn't need to be retimed unless you have messed with it or there are worn parts in it...all of the new cockers I have owned or setup for people haven't needed anything done to them right out of the box...put on an air system and hopper and go play...
None of the cockers I have owned or now own have needed retiming for any reason other than after I have made a change to them...like replacing parts for cosmetic or performance reasons.NONE of the have ever just "needed retimed".
Quote:
If you do this with a stock Cocker, it will slice a ball.
WRONG!
The only reason it chops a ball is from the trigger being short stroked and that is user error not the gun.
Quote:
However, many cocker owners go for a new ram, and adjustable Rock reg, so they can turn it down to the point where it will pinch instead of chop.
Partially true.
the new ram has nothing to do with it at all basically a ram is a ram is a ram 90% of them come from the same company (clippard) and the reason for changing rams is usually cosmetic.
replacing the stock LPR with an externally adjustable LPR is correct...it makes it much much easier to lower the operating pressure to the point that the bolt will pinch a ball instead of chopping it if the trigger is shortstroked.


like I said I wanted to clarify without flaming....everyone has a personal reason for preferring one gun over another.I prefer cockers...not because there is anything wrong with RM's or Mags or Impys or whatever it's just my personal preference...
Enjoy your Rainmakers...I was going to buy one a couple of monts ago but just didn't have the cash when they were $99.95 at actionvillage and now that they are sold out I do have the extra cash....
figures...............
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Old 01-31-2003, 02:54 PM #16
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thank you for your civil tongue, but i have one on you, the rainmaker doesnt need to be timed or retimed ever, unless you do some seriouse work to the internals and then it is one simple adjustment of the ram rod lenght (i hope that is the correct term). also you will note the the rainmaker is not shortstroakable, so a newby can shoot one out of the box no problem.
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Old 01-31-2003, 04:12 PM #17
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Harpo-
Nice reply.
I wasnt trying to flame on cockers. They really are great paintball guns. I was just trying to respond to an ignorant poster

Much of my comments were based on pre-97 cockers, which would definetly slice a ball, fall out of timing, and short-stroke. The pre-97 was the bane of all airsmiths.
Newer ACs have made improvements in these areas.

My point was that those things will still happen more often on an AC than a RM because of differences in design (and user error).

That was my point.

Nick
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Old 01-31-2003, 08:48 PM #18
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no...we airsmiths LOVE guns that break...I love it when i see a cocker fly off the shelf to a 12-14 year odl...it means its gunna be back here for repairs w/i two weeks
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Old 02-01-2003, 01:45 AM #19
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yeh, harpo, your cocker needs to be retimed only with upgrades. my rainmaker needs to be retimed never.
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Old 02-01-2003, 05:07 AM #20
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Bah, you haven't been doing the right upgrades then I've upgraded my ram(got one with bumpers... Dropzone lied it didn't drop the noise level 10fold) and had to retime it, Did Hellbore's spring bias mod and had to retime it, Soon I'll lighten my carrier and retime it, and when/if I ever get around to sending it to madmarty it will be retimed. But so far, I've personally timed mine twice.

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Old 02-01-2003, 09:22 AM #21
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Gerbil...the "timing" of a RM is really checking how far the carrier is from the ram. its not anything else. YOu shouldnt have to retime after lightening the carrier or getting mad marty. Theres that little nut on the ram rod..thats to save the timing....
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