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Old 08-07-2006, 07:48 PM #1
faucody
 
 
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Pre manufactured steel building ???

Im Not sure about other places in the country as far as rent..... But here in South Florida 15,000 sq ft enough for 1 full field goes for around 10-15k per month! Which means the only indoor place that opened wen out very quickly..

I have been inquiring about pre manufactured steel buildings.... Which i can buy 200 x 250 for 125,000.00.... With a mortgage of about 1500.00 per month...much less then paying for rent.....

Curious if anyone is currently using or has used one of these buildings for indoor use???
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Old 08-07-2006, 08:47 PM #2
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Keep in mind... the 125K is just for the metal building. Now would you like a foundation? Electricity? Air conditioning, water, bathrooms, some land to put it on, permits, the thing assembled, insulation, doors, windows, internal finish out, parking lot... and on, and on...

By the time you are done, a building will cost you about $40 - $60 per square foot. By the time you open the door, your 125,000 building will be about 1.5 mil, with a note of about 10G assuming you put down 20% - 300,000 and have good enough credit to pull a decent interest rate.

And if investing that much, I'd tell you if starting from scratch, you can build tilt wall for about the same as metal, and the future value of the building will be much higher, so do that for the appreciation of the real estate.
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Old 08-07-2006, 08:49 PM #3
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yous should try contacting local indoor soccer fields and things like that they should have the mos info on them and why not just contacting the company that makes them. also i think alot of churches do that.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:32 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatSplat
Keep in mind... the 125K is just for the metal building. Now would you like a foundation? Electricity? Air conditioning, water, bathrooms, some land to put it on, permits, the thing assembled, insulation, doors, windows, internal finish out, parking lot... and on, and on...

By the time you are done, a building will cost you about $40 - $60 per square foot. By the time you open the door, your 125,000 building will be about 1.5 mil, with a note of about 10G assuming you put down 20% - 300,000 and have good enough credit to pull a decent interest rate.

And if investing that much, I'd tell you if starting from scratch, you can build tilt wall for about the same as metal, and the future value of the building will be much higher, so do that for the appreciation of the real estate.

Dude I just can't get enough of your progress page. It's too bad you didn't do it in a blog format so we could leave comments (so I'm forced to do that here ).

How did you work out the drainage under the turf? I know you're going to have to go through w/a hose or pressure washer and spray that stuff off after each use---especially those nice whiskey barrels--lest it get all funky and nasty in no time. What kind of a solution did you find? I know there was pic of a guy hosing it down, so I know you did something.

Love the multi-colored look too btw. You should leave that progress page up as a monument and inspiration to future would-be field owners; you've really done a great job w/ it.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:57 PM #5
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maybe look into a dome,

if you can find something else to buy the space that your not useing it could be feasable as a field location. theres also plenty of room for companys to advertise all around it, the one around here charges 500 and your companys gets there name on a custom sign hung up around the edge of the field.
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Old 08-08-2006, 02:42 AM #6
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domes are a cool idea but i dont kno how the prices are on them? anyone with some insight?
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Old 08-08-2006, 05:17 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investorguy
Dude I just can't get enough of your progress page. It's too bad you didn't do it in a blog format so we could leave comments (so I'm forced to do that here ).

How did you work out the drainage under the turf? I know you're going to have to go through w/a hose or pressure washer and spray that stuff off after each use---especially those nice whiskey barrels--lest it get all funky and nasty in no time. What kind of a solution did you find? I know there was pic of a guy hosing it down, so I know you did something.

Love the multi-colored look too btw. You should leave that progress page up as a monument and inspiration to future would-be field owners; you've really done a great job w/ it.
Thanks for the comments... I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this - but since the OP is asking about buildings, it might be useful to toss out ideas that I used on this building. As far as cleaning an indoor field - that was really the number 1 goal - come up with a solution to that. I visited several indoor fields around the country, and some were so nasty, with paint sliding down walls, coating ceilings, etc. The turf we have came from another field that went out of business after 8 or 9 months, and it was covered in paint - saturated all throughout the infill. They used to "clean" it by putting DE on it, then vacuuming it off. That would only pick up the top layer of paint, and introduced the DE into the infill.

So when we got the turf delivered in rolls... we had paint oozing out of the rolls and making puddles of yellow gack on the floor. Sweet!

So I tried to find answers out here on PBNation, and there were some comments - so we unrolled a section and we started experimenting. People talked about steam cleaning, so I brought in a commercial steam cleaning company and had them hit the turf. I found it really did not work too well. It would again, just clean the top layer. We found the best thing was just soak it, and let the paint dissolve and run off. So there were a few drains on the floor - we decided to add a few more... like 200 more! We cut channels through the foundation and ran 2 inch drain pipe in a huge grid with drains every 6 feet along the grid-work. By hosing down the floors in advance, we located any natural low spots in the building, and concentrated drains along those areas.

The back of the turf has small holes, and the water wants to drain through it, but will also travel on top. To help the water get through to the drains, we located all the holes under the turf (a trick in and of itself... did it by blowing HP air into the drain, then listening to see where the hiss of the next drain was...). We discovered the best way to cut holes in the turf was with a ceramic drill bit. They are the ones that have a stone type cutting surface on the circle - and it grinds through the turf without catching the way a conventional hole saw would. By drilling 1" holes over each drain, it really increased the speed at which the water would flow down through the turf.

We were still not getting the flow we wanted under the turf however. If starting from scratch, I'd put in a good slope on my foundation, but with the pre-existing building, it did not seem practical... but since we did have a lot of drains - we just have to help the water get to them. We found that the secret was to get a slight gap between the turf and the concrete - so the rubber backing doesn't just lay flat against the concrete. To accomplish this, we took 20 foot sticks of 2 inch PVC pipe, and using a table saw, sliced off 1 inch strips of PVC. It then has a slight curve to it, and we could slide them up under the turf starting from each of the 200 holes we had drilled - and by making a large V pattern going to each drain with 2 strips of PVC per drain, we increased the water flow, and drainage time by approx 300%.

Now as we talk about on our Progress Page I think part of the secret is get the balls up ASAP, and not have as much to clean - and the golf cart pulling the leaf rake works amazingly well. We spread full and shot paintballs on the turf, and be adjusting the rake a bit, and adding a little weight to it so it grabs a little better, we can scoot along at about 10 mph with the cart and pick up over 95% of the stuff in one pass. The widest point on the cart and leaf rake is just over 45 inches, so we made sure we have enough clearance between all bunkers and walls to fit through.

We plan on taking a break from play every 2-3 hours, and do a 10 minute clean up of the field - with one ref scooting around on the golf cart, and the rest doing a wipe down of bunkers and walls.

Now you brought up the wood bunkers in the back - and yes, inside, this is a concern... The paintballs have a tendency of blasting the paint into the wood fibers where when water is added - they ferment and start to smell. So what we did was use a satin finish polyurethane in our commercial spray rig, and we have 4-5 coats (a total of 28 gallons of polyurethane) on the bunkers you see pictured. That's why the whiskey barrels have that slight sheen to them - they are sitting on the plastic there because that shot was taken right after we sprayed them. The shine gets cut down a bit as they dry. Hopefully the poly stops the penetration of the oils into the wood. You can also see that a lot of the bunkers we built, the well, gallows, covered wagon, etc are all make from pressure treated lumber. Hopefully that helps as well.

The other thing we are doing is we added a mixing tank onto the main feed for our hoses. This allows us to input cleaning chemicals and set a mix so we can drop in just a hint of chlorine - so it smells a little more like the pool in my scuba shop than a gym locker. The chlorine will kill anything trying to live under the turf or in the wood. And we've gotten some other odor killing solutions that we can mix with the water from a janitorial supply house that hospitals and gyms use.

So you can see, a lot of time, effort, thought, and money has gone into the building so far... will any of it work?? Time will tell!

Hope no one minds this got a bit long... but since this area is for owners, and folks are trying to figure out inside building ideas, I thought I'd share what steps we have been through. And as I've said several times in other threads, I really think before anyone actually starts up a field - especially indoor, they should fly around the country and visit a half a dozen or so and see what they are doing. If you can't afford to do that.. you can't afford an indoor field! And I believe, you can't afford not to - just by looking at some other fields, I modified ideas I put in place and saved myself tens of thousands in costs. And anyone is welcome to come visit our place - hopefully done in less than 2 weeks now! Hooray!
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:52 AM #8
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Hey Larry were opening up a Indoor Reball Center in about 4 weeks down in South Fla area. Just wondering what you are going to use to hold down the bunkers in place?

Thanks,
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Old 08-08-2006, 08:09 AM #9
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Quote:
Thanks for the comments... I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this - but since the OP is asking about buildings, it might be useful to toss out ideas that I used on this building. As far as cleaning an indoor field - that was really the number 1 goal - come up with a solution to that. I visited several indoor fields around the country, and some were so nasty, with paint sliding down walls, coating ceilings, etc. The turf we have came from another field that went out of business after 8 or 9 months, and it was covered in paint - saturated all throughout the infill. They used to "clean" it by putting DE on it, then vacuuming it off. That would only pick up the top layer of paint, and introduced the DE into the infill.

So when we got the turf delivered in rolls... we had paint oozing out of the rolls and making puddles of yellow gack on the floor. Sweet!

So I tried to find answers out here on PBNation, and there were some comments - so we unrolled a section and we started experimenting. People talked about steam cleaning, so I brought in a commercial steam cleaning company and had them hit the turf. I found it really did not work too well. It would again, just clean the top layer. We found the best thing was just soak it, and let the paint dissolve and run off. So there were a few drains on the floor - we decided to add a few more... like 200 more! We cut channels through the foundation and ran 2 inch drain pipe in a huge grid with drains every 6 feet along the grid-work. By hosing down the floors in advance, we located any natural low spots in the building, and concentrated drains along those areas.

The back of the turf has small holes, and the water wants to drain through it, but will also travel on top. To help the water get through to the drains, we located all the holes under the turf (a trick in and of itself... did it by blowing HP air into the drain, then listening to see where the hiss of the next drain was...). We discovered the best way to cut holes in the turf was with a ceramic drill bit. They are the ones that have a stone type cutting surface on the circle - and it grinds through the turf without catching the way a conventional hole saw would. By drilling 1" holes over each drain, it really increased the speed at which the water would flow down through the turf.

We were still not getting the flow we wanted under the turf however. If starting from scratch, I'd put in a good slope on my foundation, but with the pre-existing building, it did not seem practical... but since we did have a lot of drains - we just have to help the water get to them. We found that the secret was to get a slight gap between the turf and the concrete - so the rubber backing doesn't just lay flat against the concrete. To accomplish this, we took 20 foot sticks of 2 inch PVC pipe, and using a table saw, sliced off 1 inch strips of PVC. It then has a slight curve to it, and we could slide them up under the turf starting from each of the 200 holes we had drilled - and by making a large V pattern going to each drain with 2 strips of PVC per drain, we increased the water flow, and drainage time by approx 300%.

Now as we talk about on our Progress Page I think part of the secret is get the balls up ASAP, and not have as much to clean - and the golf cart pulling the leaf rake works amazingly well. We spread full and shot paintballs on the turf, and be adjusting the rake a bit, and adding a little weight to it so it grabs a little better, we can scoot along at about 10 mph with the cart and pick up over 95% of the stuff in one pass. The widest point on the cart and leaf rake is just over 45 inches, so we made sure we have enough clearance between all bunkers and walls to fit through.

We plan on taking a break from play every 2-3 hours, and do a 10 minute clean up of the field - with one ref scooting around on the golf cart, and the rest doing a wipe down of bunkers and walls.

Now you brought up the wood bunkers in the back - and yes, inside, this is a concern... The paintballs have a tendency of blasting the paint into the wood fibers where when water is added - they ferment and start to smell. So what we did was use a satin finish polyurethane in our commercial spray rig, and we have 4-5 coats (a total of 28 gallons of polyurethane) on the bunkers you see pictured. That's why the whiskey barrels have that slight sheen to them - they are sitting on the plastic there because that shot was taken right after we sprayed them. The shine gets cut down a bit as they dry. Hopefully the poly stops the penetration of the oils into the wood. You can also see that a lot of the bunkers we built, the well, gallows, covered wagon, etc are all make from pressure treated lumber. Hopefully that helps as well.

The other thing we are doing is we added a mixing tank onto the main feed for our hoses. This allows us to input cleaning chemicals and set a mix so we can drop in just a hint of chlorine - so it smells a little more like the pool in my scuba shop than a gym locker. The chlorine will kill anything trying to live under the turf or in the wood. And we've gotten some other odor killing solutions that we can mix with the water from a janitorial supply house that hospitals and gyms use.

So you can see, a lot of time, effort, thought, and money has gone into the building so far... will any of it work?? Time will tell!

Hope no one minds this got a bit long... but since this area is for owners, and folks are trying to figure out inside building ideas, I thought I'd share what steps we have been through. And as I've said several times in other threads, I really think before anyone actually starts up a field - especially indoor, they should fly around the country and visit a half a dozen or so and see what they are doing. If you can't afford to do that.. you can't afford an indoor field! And I believe, you can't afford not to - just by looking at some other fields, I modified ideas I put in place and saved myself tens of thousands in costs. And anyone is welcome to come visit our place - hopefully done in less than 2 weeks now! Hooray!
Well, you there have done you're research, and one of the few who under stand how making a real field works, and the time and research and work that goes into it.

Very good! As well as you gave me ideas for my field that I plan to plan out in the near future.


EDIT: I think I have decided during my flights, I will visit you're field I am very impressed, and would be glad to talk with someone like you about a few things.

Last edited by jake55 : 08-08-2006 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:33 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballmonkey069
domes are a cool idea but i dont kno how the prices are on them? anyone with some insight?
I talked with one guy who had one for a driving range and he said the operating cost was about 2-3 times more than a traditional building.
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:34 AM #11
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Excellent read, Larry!
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:46 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatSplat
Thanks for the comments...
[snip]
And anyone is welcome to come visit our place - hopefully done in less than 2 weeks now! Hooray!
Awesome post man. I don't have plans to open an indoor field any time soon. I still want to come see your field. It's been fun to see it go up.
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:53 AM #13
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Originally Posted by lester98c107
maybe look into a dome,

if you can find something else to buy the space that your not useing it could be feasable as a field location. theres also plenty of room for companys to advertise all around it, the one around here charges 500 and your companys gets there name on a custom sign hung up around the edge of the field.
that is a good idea speaking that a local church i don attend uses that for their chapel area its plenty big
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Old 08-09-2006, 06:31 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake55
Well, you there have done you're research, and one of the few who under stand how making a real field works, and the time and research and work that goes into it.

Very good! As well as you gave me ideas for my field that I plan to plan out in the near future.


EDIT: I think I have decided during my flights, I will visit you're field I am very impressed, and would be glad to talk with someone like you about a few things.
That would be great... stop by anytime - just give me a call and let me know when you're coming. When you say "during my flights" - do you fly yourself... or do you mean commercial.
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:21 AM #15
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That would be great... stop by anytime - just give me a call and let me know when you're coming. When you say "during my flights" - do you fly yourself... or do you mean commercial
I mean commercial, I've tooken some advice from other currently owners, and inteligent friends, and decided to to what you had done(fly around the world and visit many paintball fields) I feel this will help me in finaly getting mine open - and it seems you have an impresive field, that I would be delighted to visit.
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:18 AM #16
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Yeah, I want to check out your field too. Problem is I don't find myself in the Dallas area very often (that last time was when I turned 2).
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Old 08-09-2006, 11:12 AM #17
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Best of Luck GatSplat and thanks for posting up some great info.
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:14 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake55
I mean commercial, I've tooken some advice from other currently owners, and inteligent friends, and decided to to what you had done(fly around the world and visit many paintball fields) I feel this will help me in finaly getting mine open - and it seems you have an impresive field, that I would be delighted to visit.

If flying American, it's really easy to take any flight and route through the Dallas Hub with a lay over there... Then you don't even pay for that flight... just make it a way point on some other trip - it's a freebie flight then!

And if you are going to make it, just shoot me a PM and I'll meet you at the airport and give you a ride over. It's only about 10 minutes from DFW airport - so not a problem!
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Old 08-10-2006, 12:26 AM #19
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Wow great information, makes me want to tear up the turf.........

On a side note what is with the wall coverings along the side of the western field, do these serve any purpose?

Cheers,
Shawn
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:30 AM #20
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Wow great information, makes me want to tear up the turf.........

On a side note what is with the wall coverings along the side of the western field, do these serve any purpose?

Cheers,
Shawn

Ah... good question... and those might change... Those are Billboards.

In fact, one of them is a billboard I used to have up in town for my scuba shop. And if you look at the upper right hand corner of the ScubaToys bill board, you will see my cartoon... in the Ask Joe & Larry drawing. That's me with the long hair and phone in the second photo below:



If I do say so myself... this was kind of brilliant. So as I might have explained earlier in some post, one of the first things I did when I bought this building was blow foam on all the walls and ceilings... 5 inches thick. It gives it an amazing insulation property. It's like turning the entire building into a 5 inch thick Styrofoam cooler. The only problem is, the stuff is kinda soft, and a paintball would smack into it, or kids might pick at it and just like a Styrofoam cooler, chunks could get picked off... so we had to cover all the walls.

Now to sheet rock over all the walls, 15 feet high for a running wall length of a little over 1000 feet.. so 15,000 square feet of sheet rock... a bit expensive. And then every shot breaks - and you can't hose off sheet rock. The solution... Billboards!

They are super heavy duty vinyl. Much sturdier than tarps you buy. I'd say the equivalent strength of about 4 or 5 of those blue tarps you get at home depot. It's really about the same as good bunker material, except about twice as thick as a heavy bunker. And one side is printed... the other side is plain white vinyl. And they are extremely durable, waterproof, easy to attach...and perhaps best of all... Free!!

I buy billboards for my scuba company, and now have one on I-35 in Dallas right at the Business 121 Exit for the Paintball fields - with the Opening Soon sign on it. Anyway, I got talking to my sales rep, and I've changed what is on my billboard a few times... asked what they do with the old billboards, and she explained they throw them away... by the hundreds! Every month!

So a little sweet talking... plus a commitment to buy another years worth of billboard advertising from them, and she lets me come over with my truck, and load up a ton of used billboards. In the back room, the ones that looked cool, we pointed into the field. Got my scubatoys billboard, and if you look at the pictures on the progress pages, you'll see most the others we picked were ones that had cute girls on beer billboards. And we've got one of the real tall ones... 25 feet tall, of Jessie James:



Now in the main X-ball field, we wanted a cleaner look, so instead of turning the billboards in - we put the ads toward the walls, and ran the white side turned in. Helps with the lighting with all the reflected light, paintballs bounce a lot, and if they do break.. just hose them off!

And really, they were super easy to attach. In the back, we had wood framing, and by taking sheet rock screws, and those round upholstery washers, we just screwed it right to the wood framing. Holds great.

In the X ball area, where they are just white we couldn't screw them to the walls... metal walls covered in that foam - so we hung them. If you look at the top of the wall, right by the scissors lift in this picture:



You will see cut outs in the top of the vinyl. There is actually a pre made loop in the end of these things, it's what they use to run cable through to stretch them over a billboard. We ran a piece of 1 inch pvc through the channel after cutting out a little piece every foot or so, then stretched a heavy cable along the roof, attached to the metal beams, and tightened with turnbuckles, and simply zip tied the pvc in the billboard to the cable. Viola... instant wall covering for about 10 bucks worth of hardware.

And these billboard measure 15 feet by 49 feet each - and easy to cut to size with a razor knife or sharp scissors. And, now I've found a place that will sell them, printed with any art work you want - just give them the file, and they'll output it - for a little less than a grand a board. So we're now looking for some cool old west town pictures so we can actually cover the rear walls with those which will make the room look a little neater I think. And all for about 4 grand - which is nothing compared to any other wall treatment you could do for that size of coverage.

I know, you'll hate to see my picture come down... or the cute Coors lite chicks... but it might make for a better western town.

Sorry for the long rant - but any of you guys looking to cover indoor walls, I figure I'd let you know, the billboard thing worked real good for us.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:31 AM #21
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Larry you should make a thread here in the field owners section, your field is looking amazing so far. I as a speedballer even love the look of the Wild West field.
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"coolestguyonplanet: I have huge balls."
"awkward silence: Dunno what a woman needs to use twitter for. "The stove was hotter than usual today."
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