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Old 07-24-2006, 11:22 AM #43
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all refs make mistakes but this seemed a little much
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:29 AM #44
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anyone see chino wipe that face hit in the second game of the pro finals?

the refs were lazy though. i was on deck at a field, i forget which one, but there was a ref watching the corner, and a ref watching a dorito player, the corner player is clearly hit and is not goin out. the ref watching him acknowaldges he is hit, the dorito ref is running towards him because he isnt sure if he is hit, the corner ref proceeds to stand there and wait as this other ref comes to pull the player out, but when the other ref comes to check him, he thinks its rub, and the ref who was originally watching the corner and saying, he is hit. He should of pulled the player and had that be that. that was just one expample of lazyness. i think that was the empire field. it doesnt take 2 refs to pull out a player on an obvious hit on your arm.

i would like to say the eclipse field had very good refs
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:37 AM #45
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The refs are on there feet from 8:00am to 7:00pm and the truth is the truth is they called most everything correctly, but sometimes they just couldn't see a hit. It is the players that make it difficult on the reffs. They wipe everything they get a chance to and by the time the reffs go to check them the paint magically dissapears. I did notice however that when the crowd was yelling at the refs to check some one, they didn't, and thats probably because they know that its illegal for the crowd to be saying that, so it would be an unfair call if they pulled someone for what the crowd saw and not them.
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:21 PM #46
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I agree with pretty much all of the sentiments here. There were a handful of really bad calls on Sunday (I missed Saturday) that heavily changed the outcome of the whole tourny. IMO, it should have been Joy vs. Naughty Dogs in the final match. Rage played well, but their win is due wholey to poor ref calls.

I disagree with the idea that the refs were favoring east coast teams. If that were the case, the 'canes would have won pro, and Friendly Fire would have won D3.

The real thing everyone ought to be discussing is how to express our concerns, both as players and as spectators who are concerned for the public perception of our sport, to those who are in a position to make changes at the NPPL, and any other paintball leagues.

The problem as I see it, is that the refs don't do the best job. How can they do their job better? What's stopping them from making the correct calls? Do they need more refs? Do they need refs in different positions (elevated over the field, for example)? Do they need to rotate the refs to avoid boredom?

The refs do a lot of work. I can totally understand if they get tired/bored. So maybe they need to have shorter shifts with breaks in between rather than working all day long? I don't know what they get for breaks now, maybe they just need more? The NPPL could go invest a few grand in some arcade games and and chairs setup a tent for the refs to relax in between shifts. Give them 15-30 minutes to relax every two hours or so and they ought to stay "fresh" and focus better.

Any other ideas?
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:33 PM #47
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sumorai i agree, something needs to be changed not just us sitting here *****ing.r
I am not sure how much of a difference this actualy made but this is in fact the first of any modern large scale paintball event to hit massachusetts and the real northeast, and they pulled players from the local area to be refs, yes they did attend the course setup by the nppl, i assume they did anyways, but i don't think the quality was there because many have never experienced this kind of play, and don't know what it takes.
There was one good idea when one ref was on the little camera stage on the 50 center court and would do some aerobatic **** and then run and call people out, not sure if that was rosie, don't think so but whoever that is they did a good job.
I think if a couple refs were in the grandstands watching and had a way of communicating with the field refs to call people out that would be a huge improvement. The field refs have their view obstructed by the bunkers and can't see the whole field, spectators can and if refs who have authority were among those many more players would get out, and rightfuly so.
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Old 07-24-2006, 03:58 PM #48
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The reffeing was so horrible on the chronic and eclipse, the cronic field was a Div 4 psp team. The problen is the refs just dont care....thats the issue ... mainly by the second day the refs dont care.
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Old 07-25-2006, 12:26 AM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arussianhobo
haha the best part was when they had to send a ref up into the stands to control the crowd.
HA! that was me...

Listen, NPPL Referee 31 on the Empire field. We try our best. but we're still human, there's only so much that we can do, and we try our best to make the fair calls. Now I can't say much for refs on other fields or refs on my field even, but I tried my best to make the correct calls at all times.
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Old 07-25-2006, 12:29 AM #50
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Originally Posted by NaStyGnOmE
The reffeing was so horrible on the chronic and eclipse, the cronic field was a Div 4 psp team. The problen is the refs just dont care....thats the issue ... mainly by the second day the refs dont care.
i agree like this one time a guy from friendly fire factory bunkered this one kid and shot another kid and you could see the shot on the guys pack and we went crazy we started yelling at the ref because he dident take out that player especially since the ref was right in front of the guy who got shot in the pack
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Old 07-25-2006, 01:26 AM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shocker Rocker
anyone see chino wipe that face hit in the second game of the pro finals?

i would like to say the eclipse field had very good refs
yes the eclipse field reff were the best
the reffing on the chronic field was pretty poor they didnt even say ten seconds they would just drop there arm and it wasnt even like the reff was in a spot were everyone could c him
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Old 07-25-2006, 01:39 AM #52
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I thought the reffing on the eclipse field was quite good and very consistent.
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:44 AM #53
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I wish some of these guys who were SPECTATING would loan me there panaramic magnified eyes that come equiped with the hit radar and the wipe detection. That would really help me see what you see. I'll just put it out like this, if a player 5ft behind a net with an obstructed view claims he saw a hit all the way on the other side of the field how would it be possible for a ref who is paid to stand right next to the guy and make sure he pulls the guy out on a hit could miss it?



And for everyone who thought the refs favored the canes or any east coast team, you got it wrong. Out of all the refs on the NPPL field about 80% were from California or the west coast in general. It just so happend that all these teams stepped their game up.
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:57 AM #54
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i dont know if this was already mentiond but did anybody see the dynasty joy game on the nppl field, it was early afternoon. it all started with a move by greenspan to bunker out one of the joy guys in the snake but right before greenspan made his move the joy guy jumped the snake and started playing a small slab and ryan a little confused on his run finaly saw the joy player and started shooting him, then the joy player started lighting up ryan back and as ryan was walking off the game ended and he was still getting shot by on of the corners. the game was called for time reasons and the players were still shooting like it was the second minute, so angel stands up out of his bunker i think to walk off the field because he thought the game was over with and a joy player starts ripping on him, lighting up his back as he was wakling off, the refs meanwhile are trying to get the players to stop and it is still going on ppl are holding back angel while the joy guy is still shooting, then once it was done angel turns around and pops a couple rounds off into the back of the joy guys head and they continued arguing. My point is, is that the refs did a terrible job getting into the middle of it and solve the dispute after the game no penalties were assessed both teams played the rest of the day without any deduction of points!! i think that ruined the image of paintball for all the new comers at this family event trying to get a look at what profesional paintball is really like and with refs like we had there it may have just ruined the sport for a handfull of people.
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:47 AM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ||AA||Spyder
I'll just put it out like this, if a player 5ft behind a net with an obstructed view claims he saw a hit all the way on the other side of the field how would it be possible for a ref who is paid to stand right next to the guy and make sure he pulls the guy out on a hit could miss it?
Well, the obvious response to that would be that the ref is not paying close enough attention. Not trying to argue or anything, just sayin'...
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:58 AM #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Wounds
The reffing seemed great on the NPPL field, but there were some big problems on the Spyder field. The Joy / NRG game ended in a huge dispute over a hit, and the refs / players argued about it for a good 8 minutes, delaying everything. This is just from my perspective, I obviously was not on the field myself, but it seemed flawed to me.
^I saw that too. That was pretty messed up, and someone should've seen the hit in the first place. The whole flag thing was pretty screwed up too. The reffing on the Spyder field was pretty bad, but everything seemed pretty good on all the other fields. Overall I think they did pretty good, and I didn't see any favoring of the NE teams.
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Old 07-25-2006, 01:42 PM #57
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I was there on friday and saturday, i was both in the paddlocks and the other side, the reffing was crap, these refs didnt have any experiance at all, i dont know what nppl was thinkin doing trainin a few days b4 the event and hiring these refs.

I notice that there where alot of bias refs out there like #20 for one, this ref wasnt reffing at a point and was just talkin to team having drinks with them and so on for a good 45 minutes. Refs are told not to hang with players for bias reasons. There was a whole bunch of bad calls, lazy reffing, i seen refs layin on bunkers with there eyes close it was just awful,

There where some rude refs out there also, i seen a kid go up to a ref and the ref just gave him a dirty look and it was just wrong. some of these refs dont deserve to be a ref at all. The nppl just hired a whole bunch of NE refs instead of refs coming from all over, i dont know why they had a whole bunch of local refs.

NPPL needs to look into this I say
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:02 PM #58
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the reffing as a whole was markedly better than tampa, congratulations and thank you to the reffs and the nppl management on taking a shaky situation and improving it.

- sure there will always be some calls we can look at and say that they made the wrong call - but if you look at it in the grand scheme of how many games and how many hours these people work in a job that 50% of the people are for you and 50% are trying to faq you over id say they succeeded.
we can sit behind our computer and analyze the poor calls that the reffs make - however im sure that there were a great number of instances where the reffs made the correct call in spite of all the acts of collusion and manipulative behavior. There were a couple calls that did not get called correctly for us and it did affect the outcome, but in spite of it all id say the reffing was greatly improved - hopefully this continues through SD and....Vegas??? or LA???
thank you to the nppl reffing staff.
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Old 07-25-2006, 05:24 PM #59
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My final words before I remove this thread from my subscribed list is this. Refs are like presidents and governers. When people think we fuxxed up they want to run and point but when we do something right they only remember what bad happend. My advice is if you think you can do better then please do. You can head to the NPPL website and get all the information you'll need. If you can get on for the next event, ref the whole thing, and still say the reffing sucks then I'll never defend refs performances again.
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Old 07-25-2006, 05:54 PM #60
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there where some outstanding refs though, and i know how it feels and such such i am a ref but seeing refs at a nppl event being lazy when they are told how it works and what and what not to do. If your going for trainin and wanna be a ref at a nppl event then be ready for it or dont do it. You should know how NPPL is, it crazy with crazy people, they should be ready for the event and be a professional looking ref no matter what.
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:43 PM #61
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ha

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Thats so true East Coast Reffs Supporting there own.
lol dude.... the nppl uses the same refs everywhere. most alot of us flew in from california, and also alot from the central US. lol wow
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:34 PM #62
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the reffing on the chronic field was done by a D4 5 man team. They were so bad, and the head reff on that field was a loud jerk that thought it was his one chance for 15 minutes of fame. He yelled at our players for not running to the dead box. I would love to catch him away from a field.
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:02 PM #63
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Does anyone know how the reffing was on the Empire field?
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