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Old 09-12-2001, 09:38 AM #64
Yochinaman
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Not sure about that one. For me, the first ball ALWAYS feeds into the chamber. For me, the feed problems occur when there already is a chambered ball. Can't explain what's going on, but I've tested it several times. No hopper. The first ball ALWAYS loads fine. But the next ball feeds about 50% of the time. The only way I can explain it is blowback. The ball isn't motionless, it bounces around in the feed tube and sometimes pinches or doesn't feed. I'm still using the stock settings.

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Old 09-12-2001, 11:43 AM #65
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That is certainly a possibility WickedAir.

Is there a way to manipulate the gun to hold the bolt in the back position? Do the solenoids have a manual test button?

I suppose you could just pull the bolt back and look to see if it clears enough, but i'd prefer to check it on a fire cycle.
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Old 09-12-2001, 06:05 PM #66
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I emailed aka about my specific pinching problem today. I asked if changing the settings or adding a high rise would help. The answer I got was mabey with no elaboration. Also eileen said i could send it back for a look over if i wish. I was a little disapointed with the response. I may put this gun on the shelf untill the halo comes out. This makes me a little sad.
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Old 09-12-2001, 08:43 PM #67
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[What I would recommend is that someone attempt to shorten the length of the bolt enough so that the bolt returns further back. I believe that the bolt is sliding back just enough to barely clear the ball as it falls from the feed tube into the chamber, and in some cases the bolt is actually interferring... especially if there is spin being put on the ball as it rides along the top of the bolt.
[/b][/quote]

sound theory, but if you shorten the bolt you'll be taking away from the front end which will cause blowback. if you take away from the back of the bolt it's still going to go the same distance back due to the pin, if you move the pin you're back to taking away from the front once again. the only way i can think of to adjust this would involve a lot of modification. you could use a longer shaft for the bolt carriage, but for that to work (to mantain the forward position of the bolt) it would have to go forward father internally, plus go back a little farther which the rear of the gun would have to be slightly longer also. the only thing that can be controled by the silinoid is how long it stays back, not how far it goes back.
make sense?
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Old 09-13-2001, 09:37 AM #68
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When pull the bolt all the way back the bolt clears the feed tube with about 1/16" extra clearance. Gassing the thing up and just pulling the trigger, the bolt always seems to go all the back. You can hear the "clunk". I put a piece of tape to mark the full back position and the bolt hits it every time. Not very scientific, but I'm pretty sure this isn't the problem. The bolt seems to go back as far as it can every time. Just for reference, in a cocker the cocking point of the bolt is about flush with the feed tube hole, but the ram actually pulls it past that point at least 1/8" or 1/4". Design problem? I don't think so either because you can mimic this extra timing gap by increase the "bolt back" time with the data cable.

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Old 09-13-2001, 03:02 PM #69
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I would like to know if AKA is reading this and how they will react.
does anybody know what they say about this????
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Old 09-13-2001, 10:36 PM #70
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heres something to think about....where does the ball detent stick into the feed area. some ball detents sit partially in the feed area, if this is the case the ball would have to move back some to feed. in this situation if the bolt only clears the breach by a small amount it could interfere with the ball dropping completely.
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Old 09-14-2001, 12:03 AM #71
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pinching/flipping

When I purchased my Excalibur in Feb. they were talking about a "3rd gen" marker with larger internal chambers, ect... BUT they also mentioned having the bolt change a bit so it would chamber the ball into the barrel further. Did this mod come about?
IF they did - this might be a possible result?

I rarely(once a case) have a ball pinch and as I have my pressure very low I have to cock the bolt back , were my friend didn't lower his as far as mine and his is just fine with another pull of the trigger(been thinking of raising mine!)

Give me a pinched ball any day verses a chop. Last time I chopped was using hellfire(gone to starball with Jav. barrel).

Ted
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Old 09-14-2001, 10:19 AM #72
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Yes, i'm pretty sure that they changed the body to allow the ball to feed further into the barrel. When I screw my cocker barrels in there is a gap between the barrel and the body so I can't screw it in all the way. I use an oring to take up this gap. I think that's the result of that "mod". I don't think the bolt changed, just body where the barrel threads in.

I'll check the ball detente. I don't remember seeing it through the feed tube. I'm pretty sure it's out of the way. I'll check again though.

I don't see how the extra 1/8" or 1/4" bolt over travel can help. Why wouldn't you be able to mimic this overtravel with timing? I'm just dense like that though. There isn't much material on the front of the bolt to shave off. That oring on the front is pretty darn close to the front already. There probably IS only 1/16" of the front bolt before that first oring. But I doubt anybody would want to risk a $40-60 replacement bolt on a hunch. Best let AKA do that sort of testing.

Someone (Dan?) should send this thread to AKA if it hasn't been done so already.

Yochi.
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Old 09-14-2001, 10:24 AM #73
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i agree if the bolt is clear of the breech then raising the hold back time should solve the problem unless like i mentioned earlier the ball detent was causing problems.
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Old 09-14-2001, 11:04 AM #74
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My skipping shots problem got allot better after I installed a high rise on the marker. I just got one of the new turbo Revo boards and installed in on a hopper. I will be using the hopper with the Excal on Sunday I am hopping for very few skipped shots. We will see.

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Old 09-15-2001, 12:58 AM #75
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Cool AKA reply

This is direct from Aaron and is quoted 100%.
Dan


Hello: PBNation viewers.

From: AKALMP, Inc.

Yes we do read PBNation. We enjoy hearing paintballers
feed back about the Excalibur. To help answer your
questions on the ball not feeding or bolt stopping
on the ball issue.

We have been doing some testing to figure out what
the issue is and have come up with the fact that
its several things combined. We have found that
there are several issues: which are time for the
ball to drop and hoppers.

First, the time issue. Since the Excalibur is a
closed bolt gun it requires approximately twice the
amount of time as an open bolt marker allowing less
time for a ball drop.

Second, the biggest issue has been the loaders. Because
this is a closed bolt gun it requires more precise
timing than an open bolt gun. If there is not paint
ready to feed then there won't be a ball in the chamber.
During the firing cycle as long as there are two balls
sitting on the bolt of the Excalibur it will feed fine.
The taller Excalibur feed tubes have also helped.

As for loaders we have found many inconsistencies with
loader feed rates. Some of the early Revs work great.
Most of the current Revs are leaving gaps in the feeding
process. They also have long start times before they start
agitating which produces a skip. Since the Rev waits for
the absence of a ball before agitating it is slower to
respond to the need for paint in the feed tube.

Currently many people using Ricochets are have good luck with
them. They seem to be keeping a much more consistent feeding
of paint over that of a Rev. The Ricochet actually agitates
every time a ball moves past the sensor switch which helps keep
paint loading into the feed tube.

We have had the chance to see a demonstration of the new HALO
loader which looks like it will solve this problem by keeping
paint supplied to the marker in a constant stream. The current
information availible states that it will feed at 16 BPS which
is faster than any loader currently available. The newer version
with the extra options are supposed to feed at even higher rates.
As soon as the HALO's are available we plan on purchasing one for
testing. We will let you know the test results.

Aaron K. Alexander
AKALMP, Inc.
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Old 09-15-2001, 10:14 AM #76
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Great im glad to hear aka is looking into the problem. However, i think they need to consider other issues besides the combination of poor loaders and closed bolt operation. Take a cocker or a shocker with an average crappy BE loader and fan the trigger, it will mis feed much less often then my excal at least. Anyways i have ordered a turborev board for my loader and im going to order a highrise i hope these measures help
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Old 09-16-2001, 02:15 AM #77
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Smile

Thanks to Aaron and AKA for taking the time to speak to the public.

BackBlock, I think your problem will be less frequent with those additions, but your case seems to be a bit extreme. With a lowrise and Ricochet it is merely a random annoyance for me. With a Revolution it is a bit more noticable.
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Old 09-16-2001, 09:55 AM #78
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Re: AKA reply

Quote:
Originally posted by Auctionjunkie!
This is direct from Aaron and is quoted 100%.
Dan


First, the time issue. Since the Excalibur is a
closed bolt gun it requires approximately twice the
amount of time as an open bolt marker allowing less
time for a ball drop.
Quote:
Originally posted by Shorty
The reason why excals can skip shots is because it has to cycle the bolt and fire seperately, it's not linked like an angel. This means that if you're shooting 10bps, the excal has a 1/20th of a second to chamber a ball instead of a 1/10th second, which means the bolt is moving faster...


At least, that's my theory..

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Old 09-16-2001, 01:06 PM #79
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So is closed bolt a dead design when you get into the high-performance electro end of the marker spectrum?
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Old 09-16-2001, 01:27 PM #80
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At 13 bps no - but if in play a full auto gun at 20+ bps were to be allowed yes(we would ALL be using automags!)

But I do not thing that will be happening anytime in the foreseable future!
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Old 09-16-2001, 03:03 PM #81
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the F5 is a closed bolt gun and it has a very high rate of fire. the F5 also has a sensor eye which only allows the bolt to close after a ball cleared the feed tube and is ready to be chambered. I dont know if the F5 has a bolt forward hold time.

the Excal has a ball drop sensor in the works. now if the ball drop sensor would also read the bolt as forwad or closed that would cut dowm on the bolt release time (time the bolt is held forward befor fireing). if the bolt drive and bolt release times were both controled by the ball drop sensor it would allow 13bps with out any pinches or skips. this is only if the the feed system used will feed 13bps.

this is just what I have put together by reading these posts and studying the Excal. I may be way off base on this whole thing.
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Old 09-16-2001, 06:33 PM #82
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Take back everything i have posted

My exy now rocks! I got a ricochet and only sanded it halfway down so it sits high in the feed tube. I did this to emulate a highrise to see if it was worth buying the HR. I only had one or two pinches the whole day and the problem is nearly gone. It seams the excal really needs a good loader and the ricochet seems to fit the bill. The funnything is my rev actually feeds faster when held over a tube. The rev is much less consistent and feeds fast bursts whereas the rico feeds a somewhat slower but very consistent stream. The ricop works great on my excal but the gun is nearly useless with my BE rev.
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Old 09-16-2001, 09:37 PM #83
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once again, i played another tournry today & had no prblem what so ever. all i use is a high rise & an old revy board(no delay).
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Old 09-17-2001, 12:15 AM #84
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Something that might make the ricochet feed better than the rev is the ball sensor, it stops the balls from moving backwards in the tube, if the oring is causing bobble at high ROFs then the rico would stop it.
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