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Old 08-25-2001, 12:39 PM #22
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Thumbs up My Experiences...

I used to have problems with skipping shots with my preBE rev, but I put a high rise on the gun and the problem occurred much less often. Out at the IAO in Pittsburgh I had warp feed on Excal #20 (Malice's gun) and had absolutely no problems with missed shots. We even had the gun turned up to 12bps. My suggestion: Warp feed!

** some problems have been reported with getting a warp feed to run on an excal straight out of the box. If you get a 12volt mod done to a warp feed, then the excal will trigger the sensor. Or, you can wait until AKA perfects the interlink cable from the gun to the warp. I used the cable in Pitts and it worked great, AKA is just putting it through some cosmetic changes right now.

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Old 08-25-2001, 12:40 PM #23
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Sure you can, in open bolt the bolt still stays closed until the ball has left the barrel. Even then just do a few slow shots, then rip a string and measure the last one. A RT/Emag has to do a special chrono sequence.
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Old 08-25-2001, 11:03 PM #24
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No, I'm planning on trying out the open bolt thing (if AKA doesn't have too much of a stroke ), but I would NOT feel confident that consistency would be dependable under those circumstances... IMO, a gun that retimed itself continuously dependent upon ROF would not be dependably safe.
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Old 08-26-2001, 01:31 AM #25
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today was the thrid time I have played with my excal and I have put around four cases through it. I useing a pre BE rev and it is very fast, this rev has been used on an angel at 13bps and it never chopped. playing back I have had quite a few pinches while laying on the trigger both off the break on the run and while laying paint from a stand up where the gun is in perfect shooting position. I have never skiped a shot but I sure have pinched a lot. I delive my excal is set at 11.25bps. what Im thinking is that the revs and ricos both feed in burps, the rev more so than the rico. this burp or gap in the flow of paint is what causes these pinches or skips. watch a loader empty into a bag and you can see the gaps in the flow of paint. since it is so easy to get the excal to its top end speed and keep it there these gaps will effect the way the gun cycles. with the skiped shots it may be that the ball was only a 1/3 of the way in the chamber and the bolt pushed the ball out as where if the ball was 1/2 way in the chamber it would pinck. I have a couple of the turbo rev boards on the way and the high rise, Ill see if they will help at all. if that dosnt help I guess Ill will be waiting for aka to come out with the ball drop sensor. I cant stand the way warp feeds feel or look so hopefully one of the things Im trying will work out.
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Old 08-26-2001, 03:04 PM #26
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DogBoy: What i'm not understanding is why a hopper that will feed another gun like an Angel at 13bps without problems, and put on an Excalibur the gun will skip or pinch balls.

The problem can't be the loader in that kind of situation, because on an Angel those pinches would have been chops.

I believe the Warp feed may work better because you are literally forcing the paint to go in.

I dunno, this is an odd problem. Maybe AKA needs to open up the bolt holdoff setting, maybe to 57ms or so.
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Old 08-26-2001, 07:30 PM #27
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DogBoy, The revs I used have no "burst feeds". If you empty a hopper into a bag you get a continuous stream of balls falling. None of this 4 ball now and 4 balls later stuff. The pinches were still there. Something funny is going on. Too many ppl having the same problem. Definately need to play with the timing.

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Old 08-26-2001, 08:14 PM #28
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The bolt back time of 55ms is the stock setting at 10.5bps and I dont have any problems with missed shots with my Richo UNTIL I tilt the marker to one side or another. I just started noticing that. I have to try with a pre BE or new xboard/turboboard revy to see if it has the same problems feeding when tilted. I think it is a problem with the Richo which also feeds poorly when its down to the last 20-30 balls. I have noticed also that it does feed it burps of about 4-6 with a space. Much less noticable then the huge gap in the BE revys. I use a low rise now and most people I know shooting 13bps with an angel and intellifeed use a highrise and have had problems with lowrises. I am getting a highrise and a new turboboard for my BE revy. I am also getting a datacable. I hope to try to find good settings, but 55 ms should be plenty of bolt back time. I am actually very happy with 10.5bps. The Halo might also be a good solution, if the problem is feeding and not the settings.
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Old 08-26-2001, 08:22 PM #29
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You know? It might not be the bolt back time. It might be the the bolt forward time needs to be increased. Like a cocker if you start cocking before the blast of air leaves the barrel you will get blowback in most cases. I'm sure 55ms of bolt back time is plenty.

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Old 08-26-2001, 09:25 PM #30
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Yochi, yes there will be a continuous stream but its not a constant stream. there will be spots in the paint stream where balls are farther apart and this makes for the burps. as the hopper emptys and there are less balls to fall these burps become larger.

Styles, I think that the angel owner I loaned my hopper to was running a high rise. he also offered me 70 buck for it because he said it was feeding faster than his intela feed. when the pinches have happend the the most with my excal is the 8th or 10th ball in a string. this would lead me to belive it is a feed problem not a gun problem. if it is a gun or timeing issue why isnt it happening with the first 6-7 balls in the string? I still feel that the excal is only showing us the flaws in our current feed systems.

like I said befor hopefully the ball drop sensor will be out soon not only making this problem a thing of the past but also raiseing the rate of fire cap.
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Old 08-27-2001, 01:04 AM #31
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yeah thats a good point a high rise would help. i know angel owners that would chop balls with a lowrise then without changing settings put a highrise on and no more chopping.
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Old 08-27-2001, 01:37 AM #32
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hmm.. the theory that open bolts should feed better than closed makes some sense... and an increase in the open time could help.
With an open bolt.. it's only closed for a small fraction of time, with a closed.. it's only open for that small fraction of time. The increase of time it is open on an open bolt should result in it being more forgiving for slower feeding. Something I hadn't really thought about before. I'd like to get an Excalibur some day, when I have the money to keep my cocker and go back to an electro trigger (cocker is far too pretty and shoots too nice to sell). Perhaps some of you with the data link could do some testing of sorts on this, see if it fixes the problem, using a stacked tube would be a good idea.. eliminate the hopper feeding slowly from the test, reduce variables.
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Old 08-27-2001, 02:35 AM #33
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Who knows. Maybe it's a combination of the loader's inability, and the closed bolt system.

I know a lot of Shockers i've used have had the same problem, even capped at 11bps. Didn't seem quite as frequent though.

It's not that big of a deal, just seems odd that a lot of people are experiencing it. As long as i don't chop i really don't care anyway.

As far as Revolutions go, i've never seen one that DIDN'T hiccup if you empty it. By design they feed in spurts, the motor doesn't turn until it's already jammed paint. That is why I like the Ricochet as a better feeder, i've shot loooong strings with it on an Angel and it didn't miss. I would have had a mess with any Rev I believe.
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Old 08-27-2001, 03:25 AM #34
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your right on Styles about the chopping. if my excal choped for every time it pinched it would have been in the for sale forum yesterday. about 80% of the time just pulling the trigger will rechamber a pinched ball but the rest of the time I have to pull the bolt back by hand. this is still way easyer than squigging and hopeing for 70% of your accuracy back.

for now, hopefully
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Old 08-27-2001, 05:22 PM #35
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This past Sunday I played with my Excalibur. I frequently stopped on balls and when I did I sometimes stopped on them a few times. I chopped quite a bit. I dont know if its because its closed bolt that makes it more touchy on the whole tilting the gun and shooting thing but thats when I would either chop or stop on a ball and kept stopping on it until I pulled back into my bunker and had to manually pull the bolt back or try to shoot it out. When my Excal was shooting and not pinching/chopping it shot great as usual. I am going to turn down my rof or mess with it some and lower my LPR. I plan to get my own sometime and run some tests and post my results. Rizzo has a Richo on his Excal and I dont think he had any problems with it. I might have to get one when I get some money. My revo seems to feed fine. No burts, spurts or pauses. It feeds in one constant stream. I was using Kickin' paint which fit nicely in my Javelin with fresh batteries. I had rechargable ones in but I replaced them for Energizer to try to solve the problem but it didnt work. For some reason my rechargable batteries turn on my red light on my loader. Even when they are fully charged. Its odd.
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Old 08-28-2001, 10:55 AM #36
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Some rechargables fully charged are only 7.2V instead of the full 9V. I'm sure this is the cause of the "red light" being on in your rev. I find that the red light on my rev turns on when the batteries are around 6V ish.

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Old 08-28-2001, 01:13 PM #37
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I use radioshack 8.4v NiMH and they work good. I just ordered an Again and Again NiMH 9.6v for my Excal and am going to use my 2 radioshack 8.4's in my Revy when I get a turboboard.
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Old 08-30-2001, 10:46 PM #38
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OK,now that i've sat & read all this.
i don't seem to be having the skipping problem. i pinch afew here & there, & that's not very often, mainly when the markers tilted to the side, but thats about it.
i'm set at 12.65 bs, have a high rise & use a 12vBLACK SHELL be revy( the earlier black shelled did not have the sun boards, thats why the rest of them pause, other wise they would run non stop just like if you put a pre be board in a clear or gem). anyways, i can drain a hopper non stop, full speed & miss a shot.
like i said ealier, the pinches i get are when tipped or running and shooting. i take that back, it has skipped when tilted.

on the timing issue, if you raise a setting it decreases rof. so if you increase one the you have to lower another to keep the balance. not all the settings affect the rof in the same amount, so you might hav to drop one by 2 if you raise one by 1. the best thing is to play with it & find a setting that works for you, the faster it's set = the lower the settings, kinda like cockers & the trigger pull/timing tolorences(spell check).

i havn't really messed with the balls in the tube that much but i've got a theory. as the bolt comes back the o-ring on the front of the bolt catchs the ball. rubber grips ( in a way, not my area) the surface of the ball putting spin on it. yeah, i know, that should make it feed since it would be a forward spin & thus down. but with the slightly larger circumfrence( check that too) of the feed tube the ball with litte or no wieght on it will be thrown back that short distance & bounce against the back wall of the tube & pop up just long enough for the bolt to close.
that probaly made no sence.lol

for the record, my lpr is set to 55, sidewinder is at roughly 165- 170 depending on paint & barrel.
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Old 08-30-2001, 11:56 PM #39
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Old 08-31-2001, 10:58 AM #40
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*GASP* Where his mask?! Hehe, nice demo. That is just plain scary.

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Old 09-01-2001, 03:48 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Winnie

i havn't really messed with the balls in the tube that much but i've got a theory. as the bolt comes back the o-ring on the front of the bolt catchs the ball. rubber grips ( in a way, not my area) the surface of the ball putting spin on it. yeah, i know, that should make it feed since it would be a forward spin & thus down. but with the slightly larger circumfrence( check that too) of the feed tube the ball with litte or no wieght on it will be thrown back that short distance & bounce against the back wall of the tube & pop up just long enough for the bolt to close.
that probaly made no sence.lol
It makes perfect sense to me and I feel it's a sound theory. Like I said in a previous post, I can put 3 balls in my feed tube and they the top one will pop up when shoot, I think sometimes I may need an extra shot to get a single ball to feed. I thought this was blowback at first but i've tested that with seal tissue and there is no blowback. So that really only leave the bolt movement disturbing feeding, or the bolt time.

Perhaps indeed this is just the nature of the beast.

BTW I count pinching a skipped shot for all intents and purposes of this thread.

As for the HALO, it will have to be VERY impressive for me to justify using 6 AA batteries, and the price tag.
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Old 09-02-2001, 12:08 AM #42
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I played with the high rise and new setting today and only had one pinch. the pinch happend on a bunker more when the gun was vertical (pointing strait down) and I had shot the guy twice so the third ball pinched. my new settings are 11 1 50 23 =11.76bps. while playing back and mid field I never pinched, shooting over 1600 balls. Im going to leave the setting where they are till I get froggy and screw up a good thing. it was very nice to rip long string with out a pinch. the high rise really seem to help because the new setting Im useing are faster than the old ones. I did test the new settings with paint and air in the back yard befor I took the excal to the field.
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