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Old 08-22-2001, 09:42 PM #1
Styles *****ley
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Exclamation Excaliburs and skipping shots...major issue?

I have seen many people talk about how their Excalibur skips shots. It seems to be a quirk with the gun. I've now found that mine does as well. And it's not because it's being shot fast. Without a hopper i'm shooting balls out of my feed tube, but there is no blowback.

I wonder if the bolt holdoff/dwell or some other parameter needs to be turned up.

Excaliburs are fast, but not so fast that so many should skip shots. Most are set at 10.5bps and with a good full hopper you shouldn't skip at all.

Post your thoughts about this problem and similar experiences if you'd had them. Thanks
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Old 08-22-2001, 10:26 PM #2
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Last sunday I was skipping shots with my Excalibur. I think it was due to me using old 32* paint that sat in a warehouse for a while then was sold as 2nds then I bought it for the monster game and had some left over. I wasnt sure if I was shooting eggs or balls. During rapid fire I seemed to skip not all the time but sometimes. I dont remember skipping shots when I had to set at 10.5 and shooting kickin'. I am not saying by turning up my rof I skip more but the last time I shot decent paint through my Excal was when it was set at 10.5. On saturday when we practice and on sunday when we play I will post how it shot with good paint. I dont think Rizzo has any problems with his feeding. He is using a Richochet and has his set at the same settings as you and I. I didnt play near him that much but when I did hear or see him I didnt hear any skipped shots.
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Old 08-23-2001, 02:00 AM #3
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At skyball someone shooting an Excaliber said he was skipping shots alot. He blamed it on his 12v rev... but I didn't skip shots with my angel and a normal 12v rev....... and his Excal was set to 10.5bps... interesting...
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Old 08-23-2001, 03:11 AM #4
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I dont have any problems with skipping untill my Richo gets to low. They have a way of tossing balls around inside of them when they get low. I dont think skipped shots is that bad of an issue. Nothing compared to Choping and Breaking, mostly annoying. I dont think its an Excal issue, but more a feeding issue. A high rise would probably help the most and a nice loader, like the x-board/turboboard rev or a richo.
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Old 08-23-2001, 03:23 AM #5
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Its a good thing!

That skipping is caused by your shots per sec and dwell settings. Try upping it a little. The gun wont shoot when it will chop so that skip is because the gun decided against chopping and skiped that pull.
Better than any other system but it feels weird.
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Old 08-23-2001, 04:11 AM #6
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Its the pos BE revvos.
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Old 08-23-2001, 10:05 AM #7
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What happens when you have a misfeed and the bolt pinches a ball? Does the hammer still go forward and hit the valve?
If so, this could be perceived as a missed shot.
But if this happens, where does the exhaust gas go? Obviously the bolt inlet isn't aligned with the valve in this scenario...
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Old 08-23-2001, 11:40 AM #8
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Red face This is how I see it...

The reason why excals can skip shots is because it has to cycle the bolt and fire seperately, it's not linked like an angel. This means that if you're shooting 10bps, the excal has a 1/20th of a second to chamber a ball instead of a 1/10th second, which means the bolt is moving faster...


At least, that's my theory..

*Edited because I'm stupid

Last edited by Shorty : 08-24-2001 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 08-23-2001, 11:46 AM #9
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I had some minor feeding problems. Without the hopper I put 2 balls in the feed tube. First shot loads the ball. Second shot fires a ball. But after the second shot there is still a ball sitting in the feed tube. A skipped shot!! It happened most of the time I did this test. Once in awhile both balls would feed and shoot. Dunno. All I can say is it doesn't happen with my cocker which is a RF. Timing is perhaps the issue here. I am however very glad that the bolt stops on the ball rather than chopping it when a ball does misfeed. When I was playing with a pre BE 12V I had no skipped shots I noticed, but I did notice a few ball pinches though.

I don't recall if the valve lets out a shot of air if a ball is pinched.

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Old 08-23-2001, 12:48 PM #10
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Ok, apparently we are all on the same page then.

My problem is not ROF or my hopper. I use a Ricochet that feeds Angels at 13bps without skipping.

Like Yochinaman said about loading balls, everybody should try that. When I do it the same thing happens, but there is no blowback. Could be the closed bolt moving throws the top ball up, not sure.

I still think it's the bolt moving too fast, not staying open long enough, or closing too fast. Yes, if the gun chopped like most others then right now i'd be selling it because it would chop every hopper load.
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Old 08-23-2001, 12:53 PM #11
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my gun does the same thing. my shocker does the same thing too. I put a warp feed on the shocker and cured the problem. I will try it out on the excal and see if it helps.
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Old 08-23-2001, 01:01 PM #12
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I didn't have that problem with my shocker when I had it. It fed fine without the hopper and elbow. Sucked them right in. Play around with the timing on the Shocker and I'm sure it'll go away. I'd play with the timing on the excal but I don't have the datalink. How much does it cost anyways? I'm sure it was mentioned before. Would reducing the pressure on the LPR help the feeding prob on the excal? Lower pressure, ram moves a bit slower? I'm not too too worried. I shot maybe a case this weekend through the excal and maybe only got 2 or 3 pinches iduring the games. The rest of the pinches occured at the chrony station oddly enough. No biggy.

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Old 08-23-2001, 01:09 PM #13
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Question Suction Timing

So without the data link, there's no way to time the Ex for suction? Hmm...maybe I'll stick with my cocker for a little while longer.
What kind of paint are you guys shooting when it pinches? Will it pinch everything, or will brittle stuff like Hellfire and Imperial get chopped?
I'd really like to get one of these markers...the efficiency claims are almost too good to be true, but everybody is saying the same thing so I guess they are. This pinching/skipped shot thing is a little disconcerting though. Think a high-rise would help? Are they even available?
Thanks for the info.
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Old 08-23-2001, 01:22 PM #14
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Data link is not included with any of the excal purchases. You have to buy it separately. Kinda sad I guess. It's the only way to "reprogram" the excal with different timing values. High rises are available as a free option. Efficiency is definately a plus on the Excal. It puts most pumps to shame in this category. That's quite the feat.

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Old 08-23-2001, 01:34 PM #15
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I was using the clear 12v Revy. when I had pinches and skips. I got a Ricochet now it shoots fine. I guess that the main concern is the consistency of the balls going into the gun.

So the key phrase is that: my gun works fine when using a Ricochet.
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Old 08-23-2001, 02:07 PM #16
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Now I'm far from an expert, but I read somewhere that the (default) time the bolt stays back is 55 milliseconds, and that value is adjustable through the datalink.
I would think by increasing this time you'd miss less shots. I don't know how the software times the cycles. If you increase the "bolt-back" time does the software increase the time between the signal for the bolt to close and the signal to throw the hammer forward?
If not, is that value adjustable?
This is where electros start getting really complicated...
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Old 08-23-2001, 02:28 PM #17
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when i had my excal i raised it to 56 or 57 ms and shot it with a 9v rev. it missed shots all the time, then i switched to a 12v and had absolutely no problems. at 55 i would miss some from time to time even with the 12v.
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Old 08-23-2001, 04:26 PM #18
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... since the solenoid and ram for the bolt are separate, you *could* reverse the polarity on the solenoid and make it an open bolt. This would also seem to require datalink reprogramming to reduce blowback. Just a thought.

Edit: Actually no this wouldnt work unless you could completely reprogram the series of events on the board. Maybe that should be another feature on the DV8... open or closed bolt selectivity.
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Old 08-24-2001, 03:19 PM #19
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Wow, that's really not a bad idea at all! given that, as a result of the chain of events necessary for a shot sequence, open bolts are, without question, faster than closed (given the same feeding system), I'm sure there are cases where being able to swap over to open could actually be advantageous to some users. And really, you'd still be better than a normal open bolt because a) you still have greater consistency as a result of seperate valve hammer & bolt rams, and b) you could still tune the dwell seperately, thus eliminating all blowback (which can get pretty tricky in straight open bolts). I can't say for sure, it's just something I'll have to look into.
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Old 08-25-2001, 04:51 AM #20
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OOH OOH OOH! I thought of this a while ago but of course I couldn't implement it. Have the gun start from a closed bolt position, you fire a few shots slowly it continues to fire closed bolt. If you rip on it, it starts to shoot open and will remain open for 500ms-1s after you stop shooting.
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Old 08-25-2001, 11:01 AM #21
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You can't possible chrony a mechanism like that properly. Neat idea, but I'd just prefer a consistent mechanism to shoot.

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