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Old 01-25-2007, 04:56 AM #64
Fargbollen
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Almost everyone on the thread seems to already grasp this but here it is in clarity: Yes, this happens if you put oil in the fill nipple, maybe not right away, but sooner or later it will. Yes, it can hospitalise, maim or even kill you or your friend, or your field owner/tech/worker. Don't be the poor sucker getting blown up or blowing someone else up. Fill nipples are cheap. Just get a new one.

Ken, I too have advocated that no one uses oil in the fill nipple ever since that first warning on Warpig in 2002. Sadly people only recently (Fall 2006)took it to heart after the the Millennium exploding tank incident that left a lot of people shocked, some with minor hurts and two guys in the hospital. One of them was the tank owner who got permanent hearing impairment from the blast. I had close friends standing near the area when it happened. Any one of them could have been serioulsy hurt. I guess the nylon bag the tank was in took the brunt of the blast even though the ends of the tank still flew thought it out and hit people. I can only imagine if it blew with nothing to contain it.
Now people are finally listening over here so I guess it's brought something good with it. I'm just thankful no one was killed.

Reading this thread again has got me thinking. I fill tanks for customers sometimes and I can never be sure they don't put oli in the fill nipple. I guess fully emptying and then filling will lessen the risk but I'd really like to have one of those blast proof bags you were talking about or something similar. Have you looked into this more? Is there any place such an item can be bought today? If not, perhaps it's something we should talk to WDP about making for field personnel safety. How's that for an idea?
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:05 PM #65
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It's much better to pay the extra money and get a new tank, than to injure yourself or others.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:47 AM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depraved View Post

now how are u gonna get a fire inside a co2 tank? carbon dioxide is used to extinguish fires as it is non flammable and basically 'chokes' the fire out, there is no heat because of the freezing temperature of the liquid co2, and theres no oxygen in co2 (technically yes there is, but combined with carbon it takes up entirely different molecular properties - and one of those is the fact that it is non flammable).

im not a know it all for air tanks by any means but does this sound in any way feasable? i cant find any logic to suggest oil starting a fire in a co2 tank is plausable.
I suppose that a co2 tank could launch the oil out into the atmosphere like a mist and create a very high fuel-air ratio causing a flash fire like a propane tank but on a smaller scale. Of course this isn't inside the cylinder but it could be mistaken for inside the cylinder by a person that has very little knowledge of paintball. This has been one the wordiest paragraph I've ever typed.

PS if I'm right you just got shown up by a 14 year old.
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:28 PM #67
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wow, I don't think I woulda oiled my air system, but i'm glad i saw that, in case i see someone else trying that...
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:17 PM #68
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Why not use some Dow 33 on your Nipple O-ring instead of petroleum based oil (As 99% of paintball gun oil is). To my knowledge silicone based stuff like Dow 33 cannot ignite under any circumstances, and it is normally what I use...

The one thing that did always worry me though, is putting all of that oil into my E-mag, the valve heats up immensely and my Normal Tank output to my mag is about 1200psi (from my AA Rapror Rex, makes it much more reactive than 850) but that thing regularly gets so hot that if you are not careful it will burn you but, most mag people say this is normal, but it does make me wonder....

Perhaps the ASTM should start telling field owners to use actual N2 instead of HPA or have some sort of scrubber installed on their current compressors in the name of safety, But also I feel tank fill rates are far too fast, from what I understand compressed air tanks where never designed with filling in 30 seconds in mind..... I wish good guys like WDP could help but, only regularory bodies and insurance compaines really get anything like this to stick, the goal I think in addition to education is to pressure them.
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:34 PM #69
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^Please don't encourage people to risk of injury or death.
Air systems should never be lubed by putting grease into the fill nipple. Do it right or don't do it at all and let a pro fix your system. Period. No, really.

Play safe. Peace.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:40 PM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargbollen View Post
^Please don't encourage people to risk of injury or death.
Air systems should never be lubed by putting grease into the fill nipple. Do it right or don't do it at all and let a pro fix your system. Period. No, really.

Play safe. Peace.
To be Clear I AM NOT ADVOCATING people to do what I do. I fill my own tanks so I assume ALL RISK in doing so (for the record my tank according to the instructions uses dow 111 lube).... But, With that pointed out, if I follow proper procedure I am at no risk, The Silicone lube I use can indeed catch fire at around 400 deg. However, my tank should never ever get to that Temp, and here is why:
According to luxfer "If you suspect that a composite cylinder has been heated to temperatures of 56 ° C or more, it must be hydrostatically retested and fully re-qualified before further use. Composite cylinders exposed to or with evidence of exposure to heat in excess of 72 ° C must be condemned and removed from service....Have compressed air filled at less than 40 bar (600 psig) per minute to the stamped working pressure"

So the issue isn't so much flammable materials it is people filling a tank in 30 seconds, which according to my math could lead to tempatures of 350 deg!!! IT SHOULD TAKE 5 FULL MINUTES TO FILL ANY CARBON FIBRE TANK, that way the tempeture never builds beyond 132 deg!! 132 deg (56c) is not that hot people, if it feels hot to the touch you are filling too fast.

I was not attempting to disagree, please don't put oil in your fill nipple, and If you get blown up using silicone lube don't blame me either, Just remember your tank should never get hotter than 132 degrees or you are filling it too quickly.
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:32 AM #71
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I agree with taking it slow may help some with this and keeping temperature down is also a good thing.
But I hope you also know that with pressure the flashpoint goes down. At least theoretically i't could go well below room temperature dependig on what pressure is used and what oil or grease is used. A paintball tank is up to 4500 psi, it could even spike to 5000 during a fill. I'm not sure if ANY lube can take this and not risk combustion at even cold temperatures. Are you sure it can? Sure enough to risk life and limb?

Why putting oil or grease or any lubue into the fill nipple is dangerous is because it goes directly into the tank, becomes an aerosol and is subjected to severe pressure causing the flashpoint to lower dramatically. It won't explode all the time, but it will happen sooner or later. Even at normal room temperature, even with bottles not feeling hot (but yes keeping these things low would of course matter). This does not happen when you lube the reg system, that lube will not go into the tank volume but outward and with regulated pressure no more than 850 psi (or 450 on an LP tank) and a lube recommended for a reg is recommended for that purpose and to be safe at that pressure not 4500 psi.

At the risk of repeating myself, THIS is why any lube on the fill nipple is bad:
whatever lube you put on or in the fill nipple goes directly into the tank and has the oppurtunity to become areosol (in effect becoming more easily flammable, same principle as an air fuel bomb) when going from small inlet to large space under pressure and is subjected to far greater pressure (lowering flashpoint even further) than lube used on working parts in the reg.
Therefore a lube recommended for lubing reg parts is not necessarily safe to put in the fill nipple.


Sorry if I seem like a D*** about this but I just don't want to see any more people blowing up their tanks, getting eardrums busted, being hit by flying debris, paintball being branded by the media as dangerous and people getting hurt or scared. This has already happened a few times now and more accidents will hurt all of us. Please everyone take this seriously and stay safe. There is simply put never a good enough reason to lube throug the fill nipple.
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Last edited by Fargbollen : 04-04-2007 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:49 AM #72
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should i replace the fill cover if its leaking .? oh its not a big leak just a lil air not a huge amount but still.
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:12 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaosMonkey View Post
Sorry I don't want to flame or anything but nitrogen is an inert gas, it is NOT flammable at all. It's the oxygen in that compressed air that explodes.

check this OSHA link

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguide...cognition.html
thank you....i'm glad you corrected him before I

Quote:
Originally Posted by connmann View Post
I suppose that a co2 tank could launch the oil out into the atmosphere like a mist and create a very high fuel-air ratio causing a flash fire like a propane tank but on a smaller scale. Of course this isn't inside the cylinder but it could be mistaken for inside the cylinder by a person that has very little knowledge of paintball. This has been one the wordiest paragraph I've ever typed.

PS if I'm right you just got shown up by a 14 year old.
That wouldn't happen...again, CO2 chokes out fires...
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:12 PM #74
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Great thread. Never realized this at all. Quick question for you all. I have worked at several automotive shops and have seen problems of water and oil getting into the air lines. The compressors cylinders are lubed by the crankcase oil and there is bound to be blow by. Body shops have separators and dryers on the lines to prevent this from getting in to the paint. Do you think it is possible that oil from compressors could cause this?
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Old 01-07-2008, 05:45 PM #75
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Wow scary stuff, never did and never will, add oil to my nipples
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:09 AM #76
Fargbollen
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Do you think it is possible that oil from compressors could cause this?
No. Or, at least extremely unlikely.
The cases of tanks blowing up that have happened so far have all been clearly traceable to the practice of oiling the fill nipple to make it stop leaking.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:00 PM #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargbollen View Post
No. Or, at least extremely unlikely.
The cases of tanks blowing up that have happened so far have all been clearly traceable to the practice of oiling the fill nipple to make it stop leaking.
Hey, when you guys say oil, does that include greases (i.e. hater sauce) because I just had to put a new fill nipple in my tank and put a little bit of it on the nipple. I only did it because I have seen of the refs at badlandz did it for the compressor.

Should I take it off and completely wash it off before I use it or will it be fine?
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:23 PM #78
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I suggest wiping it down thoroughly.
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