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Old 05-24-2006, 07:17 PM #1
Furious Ge0rge (Banned)
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'Give 'em an inch, and they'll take the whole damn ruler'

I've use this adage the very second I read about the NSA spying controversy. I said, 'So what, as long as they are spying on the Terrorists, and not me and my geriatric neighbor, it's all good'. Than, a week ago, I read that they were going to start tapping correspondents and reporters from the NYTIMES and other newspapers who 'leaked' confidential information that 'damaging' (What a ****ing joke) to national security. (Freedom of Speech and Privacy is infringed upon once again?) Than, I get ahold of this.

Apparently, the FBI is spying on Congressional Leaders, stealing documents, etc. Is this the beginning of an Orwellian Nightmare? We already have completed the first few steps towards establishing a totalitarian rule, what's next?

I just think the Government shouldn't poke it's nose in anyone's business, unless it is an immediate threat to national security. I am a proponent of large Government, but that doesn't mean this is necessarily bundled into that package. My Point: Our current Administration has done/is doing things that are against what this country was founded on. That thin, is Democracy.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:21 PM #2
I love Impulses
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Welcome to war time governance . The pendulum will shift the other way once the threat dissapears.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:21 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Impulses
Welcome to war time governance . The pendulum will shift the other way once the threat dissapears.
The threats never go away but I highly doubt repulicans with be in the white house for a while now. Things will change then.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:32 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Impulses
Welcome to war time governance . The pendulum will shift the other way once the threat dissapears.
Even if we pull out of Iraq, we will still be at war, because we are still threatened by future terrorist attacks. So, in reality, our government will always be able to claim war time governance.

This is a new type of war. There should be a new war time governance. This isnt right.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:47 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibmexican
The threats never go away but I highly doubt repulicans with be in the white house for a while now. Things will change then.
Modern politicians will give up eating if only to expand government in any direction they can. Remember that when the democrats take over and do absolutely nothing about the Patriot Act.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:49 PM #6
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Originally Posted by 25bps
Modern politicians will give up eating if only to expand government in any direction they can. Remember that when the democrats take over and do absolutely nothing about the Patriot Act.
I am a moderate republican and I live in San Francisco. I am a minority here. I do believe we should give democrats a chance, instead of assuming how they are going to fail. The republicans have failed us. They are not even republicans anymore.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:53 PM #7
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I am a moderate republican and I live in San Francisco. I am a minority here. I do believe we should give them a chance, instead of assuming how democrats are going to fail. The republicans have failed us. They are not even republicans anymore.
I think you misunderstand. I am done giving either of these parties any more chances. My only hope is that I will live to see the day when they finally collapse in on each other. Or at the very lest break apart into smaller factions.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:58 PM #8
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Originally Posted by 25bps
I think you misunderstand. I am done giving either of these parties any more chances. My only hope is that I will live to see the day when they finally collapse in on each other.
I believe in small government, that is why I consider myself a republican.
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Old 05-24-2006, 11:24 PM #9
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Umm.. Did you not read it?

Quote:
The Justice Department dug in, repeating that the raid was carried out only after Jefferson refused to comply with a subpoena and only then with a search warrant signed by a judge.

"The actions were lawful and necessary under these unique circumstances," said Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty.

The constitutional fight was set in motion last Saturday night, when the FBI raided Jefferson's legislative office in pursuit of evidence against him in an investigation of whether he accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars in a bribery deal.
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Old 05-25-2006, 12:19 AM #10
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I believe in small government, that is why I consider myself a republican.
Just small enough to fit in my bedroom....











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Old 05-25-2006, 12:21 AM #11
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To the original poster..

You left the "G" off the word "thing" at the beginning. Sorry, it was a good post and very worthwhile, but that just annoyed me.
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Old 05-25-2006, 01:05 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge
I just think the Government shouldn't poke it's nose in anyone's business, unless it is an immediate threat to national security. I am a proponent of large Government, but that doesn't mean this is necessarily bundled into that package. My Point: Our current Administration has done/is doing things that are against what this country was founded on. That thin, is Democracy.

Did you feel the same way when the top executive branch official was collecting FBI files on regular Joe Citizen and using this information against them in the political arena? Hmm...Clintons anyone?

Large government and personal freedoms seldom go hand in hand. Large government does nothing but become more intrusive into our personal lives.

Our country was founded on democracy? I thought liberal tree huggers declared our country was founded on the principles of racism and exploitation
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Old 05-25-2006, 01:06 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge

Apparently, the FBI is spying on Congressional Leaders, stealing documents, etc. Is this the beginning of an Orwellian Nightmare? We already have completed the first few steps towards establishing a totalitarian rule, what's next?
Welcome to J. Edgar Hoover's Leadership in the FBI.
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Old 05-25-2006, 01:07 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XOne
I believe in small government, that is why I consider myself a republican.

Uhh...

which republican Politician in the last 30 years has advocated small government again?
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:02 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XOne
I believe in small government, that is why I consider myself a republican.
A "Che" suppporter calling himself a Republican....



rrriiiggghhhtt
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Old 05-25-2006, 11:51 AM #16
Furious Ge0rge (Banned)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Paint
Umm.. Did you not read it?

Sure I read it, and I told you my opinion. I said they shouldn't collect documents, spy, etc., unless it is a direct threat to national security. What you quoted showed me no connection between terrorism and spying. Just the Government taking it's powers, and using them illegally. Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublenot7
Did you feel the same way when the top executive branch official was collecting FBI files on regular Joe Citizen and using this information against them in the political arena? Hmm...Clintons anyone?
When Clinton was President, I was in Elementary School, so I'm not really aware of this. I'd be interested in reading up on it though, because I really haven't been a huge supporter of Clinton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublenot7
Large government and personal freedoms seldom go hand in hand. Large government does nothing but become more intrusive into our personal lives.
I'm assuming by 'Large' Government, that such liberties as Checks and Balances are nonexistant/ignored? Because, theor

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublenot7
Our country was founded on democracy? I thought liberal tree huggers declared our country was founded on the principles of racism and exploitation
Got me there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haga652001
Welcome to J. Edgar Hoover's Leadership in the FBI.
If only the masses had a clue of what was going on around them. Sometimes I think T.V. is the real weapon of mass destruction, or in reality, distraction. How many millions of people watch that miserably unbearable show? Add that to the millions who watch other prime time TV fads, such as CSI (I think it's an incredibly well-produced, and informative show, but it's too commercialized and watered down), Survivor, and the rest. People should be mroe focused on their rights and liberties, than who is the next Survivor or American Idol. I know, telling people what they can and can't do is against our principles, but I would sacrifice fanatacism over Democracy any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Echo
A "Che" suppporter calling himself a Republican....



rrriiiggghhhtt
Am I the only one getting a racist vibe from this post?
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Old 05-25-2006, 12:24 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge
Sure I read it, and I told you my opinion. I said they shouldn't collect documents, spy, etc., unless it is a direct threat to national security. What you quoted showed me no connection between terrorism and spying. Just the Government taking it's powers, and using them illegally. Again.
Question:

[quote] repeating that the raid was carried out only after Jefferson refused to comply with a subpoena and only then with a search warrant signed by a judge[/qoute]

How it that illegal? Please tell me which part - the obtaining and serving the subpoena or was it the search warrant signed by a judge?
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Old 05-25-2006, 01:16 PM #18
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Originally Posted by I love Impulses
Welcome to war time governance . The pendulum will shift the other way once the threat dissapears.
We're fighting a war against death and fear: the threat is part of human existence. Is it really any coincidence that the war on terrorism is commonly called the war on terror? There's always a threat looming on the horizon, always something knocking at our doors or walking among us that has to be rooted out and destroyed.
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:18 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge


Sure I read it, and I told you my opinion. I said they shouldn't collect documents, spy, etc., unless it is a direct threat to national security. What you quoted showed me no connection between terrorism and spying. Just the Government taking it's powers, and using them illegally. Again.
Could you point out to me how the government "used it's [sic] powers...illegally"? If you had bothered to read the article or any of X_Paint's posts you would have noticed this:

...the raid was carried out only after Jefferson refused to comply with a subpoena and only then with a search warrant signed by a judge...

You really are the stereotypical teenage pundit with a chip on his shoulder. You make every young person who has an interest in politics look bad with your uppity attitude, blatant and unapologetic immaturity, and decidedly loose grip on reality. Maybe if you quit trying to make yourself appear intelligent and actually read up on something you wouldn't be the most hated and least respected opinion holder on a damned internet message board.

Quote:
When Clinton was President, I was in Elementary School, so I'm not really aware of this. I'd be interested in reading up on it though, because I really haven't been a huge supporter of Clinton.
You haven't been a huge supporter of Clinton? I thought you just said, in the same paragraph, that you were in elementary school when he was in office? How could you possibly support or not support him when he left the Presidency years before you even knew what politics were?



Quote:
I'm assuming by 'Large' Government, that such liberties as Checks and Balances are nonexistant/ignored? Because, theor
You assumed wrong, and you also neglected to finish whatever half-baked theory you had concocted.

Quote:
If only the masses had a clue of what was going on around them. Sometimes I think T.V. is the real weapon of mass destruction, or in reality, distraction. How many millions of people watch that miserably unbearable show? Add that to the millions who watch other prime time TV fads, such as CSI (I think it's an incredibly well-produced, and informative show, but it's too commercialized and watered down), Survivor, and the rest. People should be mroe focused on their rights and liberties, than who is the next Survivor or American Idol. I know, telling people what they can and can't do is against our principles, but I would sacrifice fanatacism over Democracy any day.
God kid, everything that you write makes me want to tear my hair out. "If only the masses had a clue of what was going on around them" -- ***** please, if only YOU had a clue about the world in general we wouldn't have to sit here and read your moronic drivel every time you get the inkling to post. People should be aware of their rights and liberties, sure, but you're CERTAINLY no expert on either, as you have proven countless times, so isn't that a little hypocritical on your part?


Quote:
Am I the only one getting a racist vibe from this post?
Yes, you stupid ****.

Last edited by sutcivnI : 05-25-2006 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:55 PM #20
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So FG instead of killing a worthwile and admittedly useful program, we babysit and monitor it and remove agents/clauses of protocol that stray from it's function.
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:12 PM #21
XOne (Banned)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Echo
A "Che" suppporter calling himself a Republican....



rrriiiggghhhtt
I am not a Che supporter. I just believe he was a great soldier.
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