[Kewlies]

Drudge claims that Kenneth Lay could face years -- up to life -- in prison. Do jailtime sentences for non-violent crimes piss anyone else off? Is his fraudulent behavior really so much of a threat to humanity that he needs to be locked up?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/25/D8HQU2G06.html

I remember a case last year where an email spammer was sentenced to 10 years for causing "aggravation" or something. Article: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118493,00.asp These people should be punished with fines, not jailtime. Thoughts?

[b2k4ripps Sdie]

Yea around here there was a case where a banker scammed people. It was called the erpenbeck scandal. Well he was faced with life in prison. Also maybe because he hired a hitman to take out the oppositing lawyer.

[sutcivnI (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Kewlies

Drudge claims that Kenneth Lay could face years -- up to life -- in prison. Do jailtime sentences for non-violent crimes piss anyone else off? Is his fraudulent behavior really so much of a threat to humanity that he needs to be locked up?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/25/D8HQU2G06.html

I remember a case last year where an email spammer was sentenced to 10 years for causing "aggravation" or something. Article: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118493,00.asp These people should be punished with fines, not jailtime. Thoughts?

How would you suggest that Kenneth Lay pay for these fines after already being bankrupt and paying for a high-powered legal team?

[Furious S]

Originally Posted by Kewlies

Drudge claims that Kenneth Lay could face years -- up to life -- in prison. Do jailtime sentences for non-violent crimes piss anyone else off? Is his fraudulent behavior really so much of a threat to humanity that he needs to be locked up?

Jailtime for violent crimes doesn't piss me off at all. In fact, I like it.
Jails exist for more than just keeping society safe from them. Criminals need to be punished as well.

[Kewlies]

Originally Posted by sutcivnI

How would you suggest that Kenneth Lay pay for these fines after already being bankrupt and paying for a high-powered legal team?

Good point, but it's not like they took that into account. The law says that for such and such a felony you face a minimum of ___ years in prison. There is none of this "He's broke so we'll throw him in jail."

And Furious, a life sentence is hardly punishment. 2 or 3 years i could see as a punishment, but a life sentence's purpose is to remove someone from society.

[Adema3412]

The man ruined countless people's lives, he may not have killed someone, but he caused a lot of suffering and he deserves whatever he gets.

[مرتكب جريمة]

Yup. Theres ways to ruin someone so bad they might as well be dead, and thats what these guys did.

They're gonna get raped in prison.

You may spend your whole life in prison, but it only takes one night to get raped.

[Furious S]

Originally Posted by Kewlies

Good point, but it's not like they took that into account. The law says that for such and such a felony you face a minimum of ___ years in prison. There is none of this "He's broke so we'll throw him in jail."

And Furious, a life sentence is hardly punishment. 2 or 3 years i could see as a punishment, but a life sentence's purpose is to remove someone from society.

What makes you feel that life sentence is not punishment? I sure wouldn't like to get a life sentence.
If prison is "wrong", then what do you suggest as a punishment? Nonviolent criminals need to be punished somehow, and a fine is possibly the weakest form of punishment there is.

[Adema3412]

Originally Posted by Furious S

What makes you feel that life sentence is not punishment? I sure wouldn't like to get a life sentence.
If prison is "wrong", then what do you suggest as a punishment? Nonviolent criminals need to be punished somehow, and a fine is possibly the weakest form of punishment there is.

He is saying a life sentence is too severe a punishment

[Furious Ge0rge (Banned)]

Kenneth Lay should get life. And his accomplice. He lied, stole, and lied some more. Thousands of people lost their jobs, all for what? Greed? Sickening.

[25bps (Banned)]

He had one obligation, and that was to maximize profits for the share holders. You can give him death as far as I am concerned. It's high time society started punishing failure.

[Maximumheat2001]

part of the reason for the sentencing is prevention by punishment. People will think twice before doing it again. Notice, he didnt get the death penality. I would happy to see him get life in prison. Do you have any idea how many lives he ruined? To put it into prespective, there were people in their late 60's and 70's who had their retirement in stock (employees that had their retirement in enron) with the company and lost everything - these people had to go back to work at these ages! I watched an interview about a year ago with one of these exact situations. There was a man that was somewhere between 68-78 and he had worked through the company (or one of the companies of enron) for 25+ years. He was planning to retire literally one month after the date that the story broke out. He thought that he would retire with roughly 1.3 million in stock. When he went to pull his money out, he had $660. That should never happen to anyone - never again. He ruined lives, but didnt care -**** he got his severence package (Ken Lay). Now his life will be ruined. The scandel also effected the economy and thus somehow probably effected you and me. Im not sorry one bit for that *******.

[Kewlies]

whatever happened to "the punishment fits the crime." He screwed people over financially, so let's screw him over financially. He won't be bankrupt forever; he'll get a job (not in the corporate world, as the SEC made sure of it, but a job) and his money should be taken as he earns it.

He didn't take lives, so let's not take his (life sentence basically = no life).

edit: Maximumheat2001, I don't feel sorry for him either. But I'm sick of hearing "Man Convicted of Fraud Gets 20 Years" or things of the sort. I'd much rather see "Man Convicted of Fraud will never live on more than $40,000/yr because the gov't is taking it."

[Maximumheat2001]

I think the govt is trying to make an example of the situation and in turn making people less likly to lie in the same situation. What they did was no different than literally going into a bank and robbing it. If you see things this was they WILL get a prison term. You dont see people argue about sentences when someone gets a prison sentence for robbery do you? Even if they were to go into a bank and not kill anyone, they would still go to prison for a long time. Once again, he ruined lives, so now his will too be ruined.

[Kewlies]

Okay, so he may deserve some prison time. But giving him life is saying that he never deserves a second chance. These so called "correctional facilities" are supposed to correct the inmates so that they are suitable for the real world. Is there no hope that he will ever become a productive member of society? Give him 10 years and let him get his second chance (if he's still alive).

[Volucris]

Money is only money. He killed no one. It took them so damn long to finish all this that throwing him in for life isn't justifiable. I see no good in throwing a man in jail for his entire life. Jail is an emotionless void created by humanity.

[Furious S]

Originally Posted by Volucris

Jail is an emotionless void created by humanity.

One could argue the same thing for poverty. Which is what that piece of **** caused.

You talk about him as if he was a teenager desperate for cash, so he swiped a purse at a bus station.
This guy ruined people's lives. Their entire retirement funds are gone. They have nothing, and will have to keep working until the day they die.

[Kewlies]

From the Federal Bureau of Prisons web site:

The Federal Bureau of Prisons protects society by confining offenders in the controlled environments of prisons and community-based facilities that are safe, humane, cost-efficient, and appropriately secure, and that provide work and other self-improvement opportunities to assist offenders in becoming law-abiding citizens.

When you see "Man Rapes and Kills Woman" in the paper, do you feel like you need to be protected from him? Yes. Do you feel like you need to be protected from Ken Lay? omg ken lay is committing bank fraud everyone run!!1 Are Americans unsafe with him roaming the streets?

And if and when he does go to prison, he is supposed to be "assisted in becoming a law-abiding citizen." That's not written for serial killers who get life in prison, it's written for someone whose crime is less serious and should get a second chance as a normal member of society.

[Adema3412]

Americans are unsafe with men like Kenneth Lay running big business. When you work for all of your "working" life to ensure that you will be able to retire and then all of that is taken away from you, because of some greedy *******, you can't feel safe or secure.

An example needs to be set for these white collar criminals. A murder only effects a small group of people. These people at Enron ruined thousands of lives, sure nobody died, but their lives have been ruined.

In Dante's Hell people like Kenneth Lay are in the lowest circles of hell, even below murderers this is for a reason.

[Kewlies]

The SEC has already banned him from big business.

The example should be set that if you try to pull something like this, ALL of your estate will be taken and you will be nothing. I guarantee that money motivates some of these guys more than fear of prison.

And yes, the effect of this is on a larger scale, but is there any risk of him doing it again? certainly not. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to commit the same crime again. When a killer is on the loose, he'll certainly kill again. When someone robs a bank, no matter what the punishment, they can rob another bank if they want.

That is the difference, I have just now discovered, between Ken Lay and other criminals. He is blacklisted from the corporate world, and he'll never be able to steal again.

[butthole-surfer]

Originally Posted by Kewlies

The SEC has already banned him from big business.

The example should be set that if you try to pull something like this, ALL of your estate will be taken and you will be nothing. I guarantee that money motivates some of these guys more than fear of prison.

And yes, the effect of this is on a larger scale, but is there any risk of him doing it again? certainly not. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to commit the same crime again. When a killer is on the loose, he'll certainly kill again. When someone robs a bank, no matter what the punishment, they can rob another bank if they want.

That is the difference, I have just now discovered, between Ken Lay and other criminals. He is blacklisted from the corporate world, and he'll never be able to steal again.

He may not be able to commit the crime again but others will certainly do it if they see that Ken Lay didn't even get prison time for it. It's like beheading someone and putting their head on a stick in the middle of the city.

PS:I thought this image was appropriate for the thread.
It's a photocopy of the title to my car.