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Old 05-25-2006, 02:09 AM #106
jhula13 (Banned)
 
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no one expects the reffs to be perfect.10 to12 hours is just to much for anyone to be at their best.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:16 AM #107
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WTF is a 5 for 1? did you execute somebody?

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Old 05-25-2006, 09:19 AM #108
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[quote=shamu]Unfortunately, the NPPL is NOT in the process of correcting the problem. They are in the process of sending out press releases about changes, not actually making any changes. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is sadly mistaken. I was physically at the training clinic, heard with my own ears an acknowledgement of the problem and was asked directly to assist in hosting additional clinics going into the future.

And I do have a clue as to what referees go through. Like many other things in paintball, I have been an ultimate referee for a series, a field head referee at many tournaments and at fields over the years. I have had a hand in helping to develop many of the techniques used by officials today. I've put my money where my mouth is by paying NASO scale wages to referees (12 bucks + per hour) AND hiring an entire additional crew so that the reffing crews can get a real break during the day and not be exhausted.

You can not train effective referees in a single season, let alone a single month or weekend. The only thing that can speed up the process is for experienced players to join the program.
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:29 AM #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianm0121
They can care less if a couple of DI,II,III teams decide to "boycott", as long as the pro teams still compete in the NPPL series so all of the lower ranked teams are going to.
This is so untrue its no longer funny.

NPPL - and any other national league worth its salt - KNOWS that it needs the lower division teams to succeed;

money - 18 pro teams, fully sponsored, do not generate enough revenue to support a league

future - 18 pro teams, ten years from now, with no lower division teams to draw from will all be playing in the over 40 league...
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:45 AM #110
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OMFG!!!!! one of my guys were like check me i think im hit....the guy runs over...and waslike youer playing on!!1 1 for 1!! we were like wtf...by far the worst reffing ive ever seen
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:50 AM #111
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btw wy do u think there changeing rules for boston...and haveing the need for nppl reffs........They better change the reffing........and concentrate on that...Do they have like a reffing commisioner or some thing....We lost so many games to crazy penaltys....2 of our guys almost got into a fight with some...but we know what happens if they did..so...no...But if this happens in boston....im not doing nppl, ever!
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:51 AM #112
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what the nppl needs is to train refs that are older now have been in the sport as a player,that love the sport,that will be there to ref year in and year out,yeah i'm thinking about becoming a ref, but don't ask me my age,


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Old 05-25-2006, 01:06 PM #113
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my only other suggestion for NPPL is very realistic and im sure has already been stated:
#1) Pay your refs more money..if they dont perform to YOUR (nppl's) quality standards then fire them!!
#2) Hire more refs so that a ref only has to work a half day (say 5-6 hours) and not a full 10-12 hour day!!

Either way, the solution comes down pretty much to one thing = Nppl has to come up off their wallets and actually put the money on the line for a quality tourney!!
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Old 05-25-2006, 01:15 PM #114
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yea,the refs sucked.i saw a reff that was sleeping standing up,cause he was swaying back and fourth.and the refs missed sooo much.a ref was looking in the general direction of a player,and that player wiped a hit clearly,and put his armband on.usually refs make bad calls,but they were a bunch of der-der-der refs........there was a gmae where a player wiped a hopper hit on the bunker (and it was really obvious) and had gotten shot 3 times in the back,and 1 time on the top of the mask,the ref didnt pull and 1 for 1's or anything.and he peanalized the other time for playing on.i know the teams and the player(s) involed but im not posting them
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:52 PM #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmenace
btw wy do u think there changeing rules for boston...and haveing the need for nppl reffs........They better change the reffing........and concentrate on that...Do they have like a reffing commisioner or some thing....We lost so many games to crazy penaltys....2 of our guys almost got into a fight with some...but we know what happens if they did..so...no...But if this happens in boston....im not doing nppl, ever!

The reason for needing more REFs is because we are playing BOSTON!!!
The way you guys played in Tampa gave us a feeling we can win the whole dam thing.
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:21 PM #116
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[quote=EZbunker]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu
Unfortunately, the NPPL is NOT in the process of correcting the problem. They are in the process of sending out press releases about changes, not actually making any changes. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is sadly mistaken. I was physically at the training clinic, heard with my own ears an acknowledgement of the problem and was asked directly to assist in hosting additional clinics going into the future.

And I do have a clue as to what referees go through. Like many other things in paintball, I have been an ultimate referee for a series, a field head referee at many tournaments and at fields over the years. I have had a hand in helping to develop many of the techniques used by officials today. I've put my money where my mouth is by paying NASO scale wages to referees (12 bucks + per hour) AND hiring an entire additional crew so that the reffing crews can get a real break during the day and not be exhausted.

You can not train effective referees in a single season, let alone a single month or weekend. The only thing that can speed up the process is for experienced players to join the program.
Believe what you like. I've been involved with the NPPL since the first HB event, and a head field ref since the second event. I've run ref training classes and helped write the NPPL ref manual. I've reffed NPPL, PSP and Millenium. I think my experience matches up to anyone on this site, and I know how the NPPL really works.

I hope they do fix the problems with reffing. I just don't think they have the institutional desire to make the changes they really need to. Like quiting smoking or losing weight - It's easy to say you're going to make major changes but much harder to actually make those changes.
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Old 05-25-2006, 05:14 PM #117
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Wrong direction

[quote=EZbunker]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu
Unfortunately, the NPPL is NOT in the process of correcting the problem. They are in the process of sending out press releases about changes, not actually making any changes. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is sadly mistaken. I was physically at the training clinic, heard with my own ears an acknowledgement of the problem and was asked directly to assist in hosting additional clinics going into the future.

And I do have a clue as to what referees go through. Like many other things in paintball, I have been an ultimate referee for a series, a field head referee at many tournaments and at fields over the years. I have had a hand in helping to develop many of the techniques used by officials today. I've put my money where my mouth is by paying NASO scale wages to referees (12 bucks + per hour) AND hiring an entire additional crew so that the reffing crews can get a real break during the day and not be exhausted.

You can not train effective referees in a single season, let alone a single month or weekend. The only thing that can speed up the process is for experienced players to join the program.
How long have you been with the NPPL?
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Old 05-25-2006, 05:51 PM #118
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What???

I watched a ref on the out side of the net tell a ref on the field to pull a player with a huge hopper hit. The ref on the field shook his head "NO" and muttered something and walked away.

I have heard, "Pay the refs more". I don’t want the entrance fee to go up. I don’t want to pay 20 bux to get into the grand stands.

It is a hard job to be a ref. You stand in the heat for 10-12 hours with a 20min break. You get shot, A LOT!!! You get yelled at to say the least. The money I have heard is ok but that’s not enough incentive to work harder.

The answer??? I would have to have ALL the facts but one thing I do know. The Refs have to care about what they are doing. I seems like they don’t give a ****. Maybe the NPPL need to give the refs a better spot light. Maybe they should get awards or a bonus for outstanding performance. Maybe the players could be less abusive (difficult but possible). The fact is the problem will not fix itself. The NPPL has to adress the problem ASAP. It is making the NPPL difficult to enjoy.
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Old 05-27-2006, 03:03 PM #119
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Solution?

I think one of the problems that cause a lot of problems is the basic setup of the “Nppl Law”
If you have a problem you go to a ref, then the ref says go to the head ref, then the head ref says go to the ultimate ref, then the ultimate gets some advice from the President, or who ever else…

Simple solution is to designate an ultimate ref for each field. Now, as far as I know, I do not think the NPPL has enough ultimate certified refs. I know Shamu and maybe 3 others can, but that still leaves about 3 fields empty. From personal experience, even if you have been reffing for a really long time, you can still suck at what you do. This goes towards any profession.

So? We can fix 3 or 4 fields, and let the ultimate worry about those other 3 fields. Maybe those 3 can be for the lower 2 divisions? I don’t know I am just shooting out ideas.

Also, someone mentions laying down between games. Most of the time when I reffed the NPPL I was so tired that if I did lay down, I was afraid I would not be able to get up.
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Old 05-29-2006, 09:00 AM #120
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[quote=shamu]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZbunker

Believe what you like. I've been involved with the NPPL since the first HB event, and a head field ref since the second event. I've run ref training classes and helped write the NPPL ref manual. I've reffed NPPL, PSP and Millenium. I think my experience matches up to anyone on this site, and I know how the NPPL really works.

I hope they do fix the problems with reffing. I just don't think they have the institutional desire to make the changes they really need to. Like quiting smoking or losing weight - It's easy to say you're going to make major changes but much harder to actually make those changes.
Shamu,

I've been involved with the NPPL since 1992, when I got the teams together to create it.

I have gotten MORE involved since Tampa of last year. Its not a question of blind faith; I'm watching the corrections being made. I'm hearing the talk, seeing the reactions and listening to the planning.

The problem is NOT going to be solved from one event to the next.

6 fields x 16 refs - almost 100 people to train properly, part time, with limited monetary resources - and that's if you're going to fly the same crew into every event. 500 + trained refs if you're going to host super 7s in the same locations every year and want a crew locally. 2500+ if you want to be able to draw from them across the country.

Stop b*****ng and start training some friends, or recruiting, or offering to host classes.
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Old 05-29-2006, 06:28 PM #121
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[quote=EZbunker]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu
Stop b*****ng and start training some friends, or recruiting, or offering to host classes.
You're 100% correct that the problem won't be solved overnight, just as the problem didn't develop overnight. As the working conditions degraded, there were fewer returning refs and less emphasis placed on training. Every suggestion I made was either discounted or ignored (and yes, i did try) If you think you can fix the problem - more power to you. I hope you can improve the reffing because it's good for the sport.

i'm tired of this arguement. Good luck to you.
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Old 05-30-2006, 08:00 AM #122
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At least I'm trying
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Old 05-30-2006, 03:15 PM #123
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our team did ****ty but it wasnt the reffs,, i thought the reffs were better than at hb and are improving ,,lets see in boston
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:06 PM #124
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i heard a story about the Ateam v Infamy game where the ref pulled a 1 for 1 when one ref checked the snake player, and it was all rub, another ref runs over, pulls him out, and then pulled out the center 50 in a 1 for 1. and then one of the a team players got clipped in the pack, the ref wiped the hit off, showed the paint to the player and pulled a 1 for 1
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Old 05-31-2006, 01:08 AM #125
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EZBUNKER: you stated"you can't train reffs in a single season" How long has NPPL been around? It's not like they just started last year,so why are you talking about training reffs in a single season?
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Old 06-05-2006, 02:45 PM #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhula13
EZBUNKER: you stated"you can't train reffs in a single season" How long has NPPL been around? It's not like they just started last year,so why are you talking about training reffs in a single season?
Very good point - where are all the experianced ref's?
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